New Coaches to replace all existing single active coaches

Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

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BostonUrbEx
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by BostonUrbEx » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:32 pm

I 100% there is a need for more seats. But all I'm saying is there's more ways to add seats than to go with bi-levels, and those other options also make for better service in my opinion.

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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by MBTA3247 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:41 pm

Single-level cars require longer, heavier trains to move the same amount of passengers as bi-levels, more money spent on maintenance and fuel, and you more quickly max out the system's capacity (both in terms of how long a train can get and how many trains you can run per hour). When it comes to moving as many people as possible, bi-levels are the best bang for the buck.
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R36 Combine Coach
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:29 pm

Since MBTA already is an active CRRC customer, will they simply order CRRC mulitlevels (SEPTA)?
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

Backshophoss
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by Backshophoss » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:56 pm

IF MBTA wants Federal funding,CRRC is OFF Limits,no federal funding,paid by Mass Taxpayers only thru Equipment bonds,IF CRRC wins the bid process. :wink:
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trains18
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by trains18 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:00 pm

BostonUrbEx wrote:I 100% there is a need for more seats. But all I'm saying is there's more ways to add seats than to go with bi-levels, and those other options also make for better service in my opinion.
Buying more single level cars won't increase the capacity by much. Do you even know how old the mbb's are. At least 25-30 years which is a long time. The bombardiers I believe are 10 years younger or something like that. Someone with better accurate info please share it since I don't know the facts like textbook. I only know what I hear. Getting more bi-levels from Kawasaki or a better builder is the better and cost effective way to go. It may sound like a lot now, but on the long run it will pay off.

RenegadeMonster
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by RenegadeMonster » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:22 am

Actually, the Bombardiers are around the same age as the MBB's, reference http://www.transithistory.org/roster/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 3XX Bombardiers were built in 1987.
The MBB's were built in 1987-1988.
The 16XX & 6XX Bombardiers were built in 1989-1990.



I'm assuming all new Bi-Level coaches would have powered doors. Would we expect to start seeing them using them on stations like Salem once we have set's fully capable?

NRGeep
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by NRGeep » Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:41 am

Good news overall, though it would be helpful especially for TF Green etc for Bi - levels to have overhead racks that would accommodate suitcases, which is presently not the case.

petahgriff8316
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by petahgriff8316 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:16 pm

Good news. Hopefully these will have automatically opening doors (like NJ Transit, for example)!

ohalloranchris
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by ohalloranchris » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:46 pm

Great news indeed. I was wondering if they might instead rehab the single level Bombardiers, but I’m glad they are going all bi level. The system needs as much capacity as possible.

trains18
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by trains18 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:10 pm

Nah they are planning on retiring them after they aquire more new cars and once they have been accepted into service and work like they should. They are trying to increase more capacity to trains plus the mbb's and bombardiers don't ride that good nor operate smoothly either. Plus they are heavier and move slower than the bi-levels and don't have as much capacity. They are also beyond their useful life too.
Last edited by CRail on Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Unnecessary quote removed.

CRail
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by CRail » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:10 pm

Single level cars are heavier than double deckers? They move slower? You really need to start sticking to topics you’re familiar with.
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by nomis » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:20 pm

trains18 wrote:...and are heavier with a max rated speed of 80 while the rebuilt and new bi-levels are rated for 90.
It’s the MBTA, everything has a rubber-stamped 80 MAS for the Commuter Rail, even if it was designed for 90 or 100 or 125 MPH.
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Backshophoss
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by Backshophoss » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:46 pm

The BBD ML II design is fairly bulletproof and has Hi and Low platform access doors,as long as MBTA doesn't add a lot of custom options,
should be a retaliative quick build.
Unless you want to issue a set of Bonds to pay for the cars,CRRC is out if Federal $$$$ is used.
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BandA
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by BandA » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:40 am

Single level cars are much faster boarding & getting off, and don't have the ADA problems. High level platforms were designed for and work better with single-level coaches - if they knew they were going to bi-levels it would have been a lot easier to stay with low platforms.

Bi-levels are lower weight per-passenger. Do the rules require a certain number of conductors per coach or per passenger?

Komarovsky
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Re: New Coaches to replace all existing single active coache

Post by Komarovsky » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:01 am

BandA wrote:Single level cars are much faster boarding & getting off, and don't have the ADA problems. High level platforms were designed for and work better with single-level coaches - if they knew they were going to bi-levels it would have been a lot easier to stay with low platforms.

Bi-levels are lower weight per-passenger. Do the rules require a certain number of conductors per coach or per passenger?
NJT has no issues with their bi-levels and high platforms. Of course NJT also has auto traps and full length auto doors, something that MBTA has never adopted for some reason, despite the fact that like NJT it has a mix of high and low level platforms.

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