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  • WMATA 5000 series cars

  • Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.
Discussion related to DC area passenger rail services from Northern Virginia to Baltimore, MD. Includes Light Rail and Baltimore Subway.

Moderators: mtuandrew, therock, Robert Paniagua

 #1488516  by davinp
 
Interesting. Metro had previously said that the 5000 series would be retired by the end of October then they posted a tweet on Friday that it would be the last day the 5000 series were in service
 #1544993  by davinp
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 7:18 pm The 5000s lasted less than 20 years (delivered 2001-2002). Very short, below the standard 25-30 years cited by UMTA and later FTA/USDOT for railcars.

Are the money train cars (two 1000s) still active?
They were so unreliable that Metro chose to retire them early instead of doing the mid-life rehabilitation. In fact, Metro called them lemons. When they were new they suffered from electrical problems. Also, the A/C was broken more frequently on the 5Ks then any other series. The 5Ks had also derailed several times near the rail yard. The 5Ks were the first railcars CAF manufactured for an American transit agency. They are 10 years newer then the 4Ks, but just as unreliable.

I don't know if Metro has sent the 5Ks to the scrap yard yet. I saw that they used one testing the new Silver Line
Last edited by davinp on Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1547256  by dcmike
 
Sand Box John wrote:All of the 1k, 4k, and 5k cars have been scraped with the exception of 1000 and 1001 (non revenue preservation).
A minor point of clarification: 4000-4001 and 5000-5001 were all retained as "heritage fleet" along with 1000-1001.
Sand Box John wrote:The 5k cars were basket cases from the beginning and remained so to the end.
The last part is debatable.. WMATA vehicle engineering sunk enormous resources in to designing reliability improvements for both the HVAC and propulsion systems in the years just before disposal, in fact WMATA had let a contract with Merak to implement the HVAC upgrades, and they were at about 25% fleet completion when the decision was made to scrap. Design was complete and contract solicitation in development for the propulsion system upgrades that were out of scope for WMATA personnel; retrofits and iterative revisions that were possible using existing resources were 100% completed a few months prior to scrapping.

edit to add: the decision to scrap the 5Ks was entirely political, it was a concession made to appease Maryland board members who objected to the cost of unrelated traction power system upgrades.
 #1547971  by tommyboy6181
 
dcmike wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:21 pm
Sand Box John wrote:All of the 1k, 4k, and 5k cars have been scraped with the exception of 1000 and 1001 (non revenue preservation).
A minor point of clarification: 4000-4001 and 5000-5001 were all retained as "heritage fleet" along with 1000-1001.
Sand Box John wrote:The 5k cars were basket cases from the beginning and remained so to the end.
The last part is debatable.. WMATA vehicle engineering sunk enormous resources in to designing reliability improvements for both the HVAC and propulsion systems in the years just before disposal, in fact WMATA had let a contract with Merak to implement the HVAC upgrades, and they were at about 25% fleet completion when the decision was made to scrap. Design was complete and contract solicitation in development for the propulsion system upgrades that were out of scope for WMATA personnel; retrofits and iterative revisions that were possible using existing resources were 100% completed a few months prior to scrapping.

edit to add: the decision to scrap the 5Ks was entirely political, it was a concession made to appease Maryland board members who objected to the cost of unrelated traction power system upgrades.
Mike- what types of propulsion and HVAC upgrades were they looking to complete? IIRC, Merak did the HVAC for at least the 5k, 6k and now 7k cars. Yet it seems that the 6k was a big upgrade over the 5k. Then Bombardier was contracted for the MITRAC propulsion that the cars had through their lifespan.
 #1548022  by dcmike
 
tommyboy6181 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:19 pm Mike- what types of propulsion and HVAC upgrades were they looking to complete? IIRC, Merak did the HVAC for at least the 5k, 6k and now 7k cars. Yet it seems that the 6k was a big upgrade over the 5k. Then Bombardier was contracted for the MITRAC propulsion that the cars had through their lifespan.
You are correct, Merak was the HVAC supplier for all 5K, 6K, and 7K fleets. Bombardier was the supplier for 5K propulsion.

The HVAC upgrades included retrofit to aluminum evaporator and condensor cores, and revised fan motors at both locations to improve airflow, upgraded modern scroll compressors, addition of pre-filter on condensor unit (original arrangement prone to fouling), and revised control software that added modulation functionality, and changed the fault logic so that if one compressor fails, the other will continue operating (there are two compressors at each end of the car).

The propulsion upgrades started with bypass and removal of a notoriously failure-prone redundant check component that was intended to confirm dynamic braking effort achieved matched the request, but never worked correctly. The inverter units were being upgraded with AmeTronics-supplied modern IGBTs and power diodes with improved electrical characteristics and thus better fault tolerance, brand new AmeTronic-redesigned gate driver units, replacement of all fiber optic cabling with modern materials, redesigned motor speed sensors, and replacement of pneumatic power contactors with electromagnetic style.
 #1548112  by STrRedWolf
 
dcmike wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:25 am You are correct, Merak was the HVAC supplier for all 5K, 6K, and 7K fleets. Bombardier was the supplier for 5K propulsion.
The portion in bold, plus what happened in NYC with their Bombardier subway fleet, probably added to the decision to sack the 5Ks.