WMATA to return to ATC operation?

[JDC]

Mod Note: This thread was combined with another thread called originally "Red line - First to return to ATC?"


In a weekend piece in the WashPost, there was an article detailing how Metro has "essentially completed" all of the work to return the Red Line to ATC, pending approval from the NTSB, and it is now working on the Orange and Blue lines (and presumably the Silver Line should be good to go, once the current ATC issue is addressed). No word on Yellow or Green lines, though.

Another interesting tidbit, which prompted some discussions, was the apparent high turnover in Metrorail drivers - "Although Metro was designed for automatic operation, the system has been running in manual mode for so long that a vast majority of Metro train operators haven’t experienced computer-driven trains. Of the agency’s 535 operators, a Metro spokeswoman said, 417 started their jobs after the 2009 crash, when automatic train operation was halted." That's 77% turnover (although it's not clear if 535 includes Silver line hires).

See it here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tra ... story.html

[afiggatt]

I'm surprised at the turnover rate for train operators in just 4 years. Was the turnover that high in the years prior to the 2009 accident?

As for the return to ATC, would Metro make that change before all lines are ready to run under ATC? If the Blue and Orange lines are still being upgraded, even if WMATA gets NTSB clearance for the Red Line, would they be willing to run just the Red Line under ATC for an extended period? What is the status of the Green & Yellow Lines?

I for one look forward to a return to ATC and back to smoother operations. Sometimes the stops can be anything but smooth.

[JDC]

As for the return to ATC, would Metro make that change before all lines are ready to run under ATC? If the Blue and Orange lines are still being upgraded, even if WMATA gets NTSB clearance for the Red Line, would they be willing to run just the Red Line under ATC for an extended period? What is the status of the Green & Yellow Lines?

My guess is yes, Metro will go ATC on the Red line as soon as it can. It's good PR, the Red line riders (who get shafted a lot) will be made happier, and it will be a good testing ground for whatever changes they have made.

The Yellow line is likely lumped in with the Green line and Blue. On the one hand, the part is shares with the Blue (Pentagon to King Street) will be repaired as part of the Blue line work. On the other hand, the part is shares with the Green line (L'Enfant to Greenbelt, at its longest) is not mentioned - which makes me wonder if that part of the line, being newer, does not need the repairs that the older Red, Blue and Orange needed. That would not answer the question about King Street to Huntington, or the Yellow line bridge segment.

[Sand Box John]

"afiggatt"

I'm surprised at the turnover rate for train operators in just 4 years. Was the turnover that high in the years prior to the 2009 accident?

Yes. When the agency hit 20 to 25 years old the folks that were there at the beginning began to retire, this included both the suits and the trade employees. A lot of folks that came after discovered that working for Metro was not their cup of tea for various reasons and they moved on to other vocation.

As for the return to ATC, would Metro make that change before all lines are ready to run under ATC? If the Blue and Orange lines are still being upgraded, even if WMATA gets NTSB clearance for the Red Line, would they be willing to run just the Red Line under ATC for an extended period?

JDC summed it up as I would have.

What is the status of the Green & Yellow Lines?

WMATA put out an RFP on the upgrading of the train control hardware on 07 22 2013 for C11-C15 (National Airport to Huntington), E01-E03, F01-F06 (U Street to Anacostia and roughly half the distance to Pentagon), G01-G03 (D&G Junction to Addison Road) and K05, K06 and K08 (I think this should have read K05-K08, East Falls Church - Vienna), the only segment on the K route not in the contract is the area upgraded for the the N route junction. Pre-Proposal Conference was on 09 12 2013, the notice to proceed is scheduled for 01 21 2014, the total length of the project is 4 years.

I believe the contracts to upgrade the rest of the C, D, K and J routes are being executed right now, the other half the distance between Pentagon and L'Enfant Plaza would be in this contract.

Don't hold me on this but I believe the remainder of the Green line E04-E10 (Columbia Heights to Greenbelt) F07-F11 (Congress Height - Branch Avenue) has contemporary train control hardware that is similar to or exactly the same as the hardware used in the Red line upgrade. I do know for a fact the remainder of the G route, Morgan Boulevard to Largo has train control hardware that similar to or exactly the same as hardware used to upgrade the Red line.

[JDC]

the total length of the project is 4 years.

So it will be sometime in 2018 that the ATC returns on the Orange/Blue and Yellow/Green lines? That's a long wait. But, at least for a change maybe we know an end date for a major Metro project.

[Sand Box John]

"JDC"

So it will be sometime in 2018 that the ATC returns on the Orange/Blue and Yellow/Green lines? That's a long wait. But, at least for a change maybe we know an end date for a major Metro project.

My guess is the return of the rest of the lines will not be all at once. As I stated above the eastern end of the Blue line was built with modern train control hardware. Both ends of the Green line were also built with modern train control hardware. When the middle part of the Green line is done it will go ATO. When the remainder of the C, D, K and J routes is done the Blue, Orange Silver and Yellow lines will go ATO. The order in which those lines go ATO will depend on the order in which the segment upgrades were done.

[mackievlzpro]

Fox 5 News is now reporting that ATC testing will begin next month during non-revenue hours:
http://www.myfoxdc.com/video?clipId=971 ... z2pxxGz7PE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sand Box John]

"mackievlzpro"
Fox 5 News is now reporting that ATC testing will begin next month during non-revenue hours:
http://www.myfoxdc.com/video?clipId=971 ... z2pxxGz7PE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

heard snipits of the story on WNEW and WTOP last evening.

Ari Ashe posted his report a wtop.com Metro testing automatic train operation next month

What I found amusing was this sentence in the second paragraph "It has two key subsystems, automatic train prevention and automatic train operation." There is no such thing a as "automatic train prevention". Prevention should be protection.

If you open the link to the story and find prevention replace by protection it was because of me.

[JDC]

No mention of color in either story, but I presume that it will be the Red Line as first reported by the WP.

[frequentflyer]

Wikipedia states its manual since the 09 crash, but then reverts to the employee only calls out stations and does not operate the train. Which is it?

[Sand Box John]

"frequentflyer"
Wikipedia states its manual since the 09 crash, but then reverts to the employee only calls out stations and does not operate the train. Which is it?

Prior to the 06 22 2009 crash trains were operated in automatic mode, doors were opened automatically and closed manually.

After the crash trains are being operated in manual mode, not sure but I believe doors are still being opened automatically and closed manually.

None of the cars in the existing fleet have a station announcement functionality so no change there.

[JDC]

I have a feeling doors open manually right now, too. Some seem to open as soon as the train stops, sometimes almost alarmingly soon. Other times they seem to stay shut for 3-5 seconds. I guess this could be a result of the computer's logic, however, but it seems the difference must be due to human control.

[Mainland]

Almost 100% sure door operation is fully manual, unless something has changed very recently.

Over the summer there was a mandate for operators to wait five seconds before opening the doors at each station - a reaction to operators opening doors on the wrong side a few times. The five second rule was horribly inconsistent among operators and just sort of went away.

I observed some operators being a little button happy at stations with side platforms since they don't need to stand up reach the door operation button.

[Sand Box John]

"JDC"
I have a feeling doors open manually right now, too. Some seem to open as soon as the train stops, sometimes almost alarmingly soon. Other times they seem to stay shut for 3-5 seconds. I guess this could be a result of the computer's logic, however, but it seems the difference must be due to human control.

If the doors are opening as soon as the train stops in island platform stations then the doors are being opened automatically.

The operator, using his / her right hand, will put the controller handle in the auto/store position after bringing the train to a complete and before getting up to move to the right side of the cab to control the doors. Train board hardware will send a train birthed signal to wayside train control from both ends of the train after the train has come to a complete stop. After wayside train control receives the signal from both ends it transmits an OK to open doors signal back to the train. If the doors are being opened automatically the doors will open after train board hardware receives OK to open doors signal.

All of the above happens within couple seconds of the train coming to a complete stop.

[dcmike]

All door operation is currently manual/manual. As mentioned above, a "five second rule" has been implemented that requires operators to position their head out the window and count to five before opening the doors. This was instituted to prevent occurrences of wrong side door opening...

Automatic door operation is completely independent of ATO. In fact, it's a function of ATP. Sand Box John's overview of how this system works is, as usual, correct. The reason doors are being operated manually right now is because an issue has been identified that can cause the system to erroneously open doors on both sides of the train in some rare cases (related to the substation upgrades being implemented to support eight-car trains).

Alstom is currently rolling out a two-part retrofit to the carborne ATP systems to address this. The old analog cab signal amplifer/decoder systems are being replaced with an all-digital receiver that includes some software changes, most notably in how code rates are processed. The second part is some new vital relay logic that limits the ATP's control of the doors. Once ATP selects a side and opens the doors, the door controls for the other side are electrically isolated from ATP until the next station stop, adding another layer of redundancy.