Alco RS1, RS2, RS3 on commuter trains

[railfan365]

Re: ALCO power, I ran across the attached image online. ALCO power on the old west side freight line.

[workextra]

Interesting to note the "High Line" was equipped with DC electrification. Did the NYC run the Motors up there at one time?
The current West Side Yard is off to the left of this photo. This appears to be taken on the (East/West) section just to the south of the West Side Yard.

[giljanus]

Only the northern end was electrified. The photo is shot towards the east - the electrification ends at the Morgan Parcel Post Building (six tracks to accommodate 36 cars).

The NYC used their Q, R and some S and T electric units along with forty-one class DES-3 three-power (Electric/Diesel/Battery) box cab units to run the West Line - in the 50's Alcos started to appear as the 3rd rail started to be removed.

See http://www.thehighline.org/galleries/im ... -operation to see the southern end, including the DES-3 units.

See http://www.northeast.railfan.net/electric6.html for some more shots of NYC Electrics (not all of which worked in NY area).

And of course, none of the above has anything to do with commuter trains.

Gil, known as Bill somedays ...

[railfan365]

Only the northern end was electrified. The photo is shot towards the east - the electrification ends at the Morgan Parcel Post Building (six tracks to accommodate 36 cars).

The NYC used their Q, R and some S and T electric units along with forty-one class DES-3 three-power (Electric/Diesel/Battery) box cab units to run the West Line - in the 50's Alcos started to appear as the 3rd rail started to be removed.

See http://www.thehighline.org/galleries/im ... -operation to see the southern end, including the DES-3 units.

See http://www.northeast.railfan.net/electric6.html for some more shots of NYC Electrics (not all of which worked in NY area).

And of course, none of the above has anything to do with commuter trains.

Gil, known as Bill somedays ...

That's an interesting bit of history. I do have 2 questions:

1. Why was the 3rd rail power reomoved?, and

2. What types of locomotives were run on the high line toward the end of service there, in the 1970's?

[keyboardkat]

Class R C-C electrics were used in freight service by the NYC. Some were sold to the CSS&SB, and modified for 1,500v. d.c. overhead catenary. The rest were scrapped

[Tadman]

Someone mentioned the Rock. That's a definite RS1-3 user on commuter trains. Heck, RI used about anything on a commuter train. E, F, GP, BL2, C415, RS3, EA6, Aerotrain, Fiat railcar, DL109, F40PH... The only thing they didn't regularly use (or own) was the PA/FA. The Rock to me was a real kindred spirit to the New Haven: no money, too many passenger trains, too many shorthaul trains, widely varied power...

[MACTRAXX]

Tadman: Back in the 70s the Rock Island commuter operation was described as an "operating railroad museum" of sorts with the wide variety of equipment used...
When the RTA began to take over and standardize things late in that decade and into the 80s that is when that colorful era ended...

My favorite examples of oddball RI locomotives were the two rare AB6 units...the only ones of their kind...and I wonder if the AB6s -particularly the overhead headlight-
influenced the designer of MNCR's brand new M8 cars...I will also say that I totally took the RI for granted back then on my regular visits to the SW Chicago area as a teenager and you will never see such variety perhaps again on a rail operation...my classic example of "You don't know what you have until it's gone"...

The LIRR changed after the MTA took over when they gradually standardized the equipment through the 70s years...the period of the late 60s/early 70s was a interesting time with the variety of equipment in Diesel service with many coaches acquired from other railroads that were eliminating or cutting passenger service...and the interesting locomotives the LIRR used before the coming of the EMD MP15s/GP38s/SW1001s in basically 1977...

Thoughts from MACTRAXX

[jhdeasy]

[SNIP]
The LIRR changed after the MTA took over when they gradually standardized the equipment through the 70s years...the period of the late 60s/early 70s was a interesting time with the variety of equipment in Diesel service with many coaches acquired from other railroads that were eliminating or cutting passenger service...and the interesting locomotives the LIRR used before the coming of the EMD MP15s/GP38s/SW1001s in basically 1977...

Thoughts from MACTRAXX

I agree wholeheartedly with MACTRAXX ... that period of time on LIRR was much more interesting than the current era, due to the variety of equipment, both passenger cars and motive power, in service.

Here is a nice assortment on a Sunday, May 17, 1970 fantrip excursion to Greenport. ALCO C-420 locomotive 224 is on the head end, trailed by tavern-lounge-observation APAQUOGUE (x-FEC); bedroom-lounge-observation AMAGANSETT (x-B&O) is on the rear end for the westbound trip. The other four cars appear to be (left to right) a NH 6-4-6 sleeper, a PRR sleeper, a NH 14-4 sleeper and a UP buffet lounge, still in their original pre-LIRR colors.
http://www.dominionrailvoyages.com/jhd/ ... _10559.jpg

[dlandw]

Hello all,
Guess I cast a broad net with this thread, but I'm glad it has prompted some good discussion.

But, we still don't have answers on the LIRR-related questions:

-- When were the RS1s withdrawn from commuter train service on the LIRR?

-- When were the RS1s withdrawn from freight / work train service on the LIRR?

-- When were the RS2s and RS3s withdrawn from commuter train service on the LIRR?

-- When were the RS2s and RS3s withdrawn from freight / work train service on the LIRR?

I know the RS1s were still around in Hillside Yard (appeared to be in the dead line) in the late 70s -- might have been as late as 1979. I never saw an RS2/3 on the LIRR.

Anyone remember?

Cheers,
Al "dlandw"

[Ocala Mike]

I can't verify it, but I believe the last year for RS-3's in commuter service was 1977. They were really showing their age by then.

[wilsonpooch]

1977 sounds about right.

[MACTRAXX]

1977 sounds about right.

WP: That was the year of the major LIRR order from EMD that introduced the GP38s,MP15s and SW1001s to the LIRR...
The LIRR not only retired all the older diesel units but also returned the leased EMD GP7s and/or GP9s to Bangor and Aroostook and Precision National Corporation
(leasing company)
Up to the point that these leased units arrived on the LIRR in the mid 70s the LIRR was an all-ALCO diesel railroad...something we will never see again...
The 1977 EMD order was arguably the most successful locomotive order in the history of the LIRR noting their longevity and noting that previously used locomotives had a short
LIRR use life in comparison...both the F-M C Liners and ALCO C420s (except 222-229) served the LIRR for under 15 years in each case...MACTRAXX

[wilsonpooch]

Yes max I agree, I was there from 73 through the end of 2006.
Was there for the changeover.
many of the MP-15's are still being used after 34 years, most of the alco centuries, were gone by 77, a couple of them made it to 1989 or so.
Most if not all of the gp-38's are still in service on other railroads.
Along with the ones on the NY&A, here are where the rest are.
Tell me again why the LIRR had to get rid of them?
I actually see one now and then, On Union Pacific trains. I live in the midwest right now.. Doubt I will stay for another winter.. they have major league winters here.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoli ... LLPX&mid=3
2234: ex-LIRR 265 2246: ex-LIRR 253
2235: ex-LIRR 263 2247: ex-LIRR 258
2236: ex-LIRR 262 2248: ex-LIRR 259
2237: ex-LIRR 254 2249: ex-LIRR 266
2238: ex-LIRR 255 2250: ex-LIRR 269
2239: ex-LIRR 251 2251: ex-LIRR 250
2240: ex-LIRR 252 2252: ex-LIRR 273
2241: ex-LIRR 256 2253: ex-LIRR 275
2242: ex-LIRR 257 2254: ex-LIRR 277
2243: ex-LIRR 260 2255: ex-LIRR 274
2244: ex-LIRR 264 2256: ex-LIRR 272
2245: ex-LIRR 267 2257: ex-LIRR 276

Found this one listed on the above site.. taken TODAY (3/20/11) Of the old 257..some modifications s but the same unit
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2450272

[keyboardkat]

Some, but not all, of the LIRR RS-1s were MU-capable. This, along with the fact that LIRR ordered its F-M C-Liners without MU, indicates to me that back in the early '50s, MU capability was an extra-csot option on diesel locomotives.
Just once, I saw doubleheaded RS-1s on a ten-car evening rush hour train on the Oyster Bay branch.

[keyboardkat]

1977 sounds about right.

WP: That was the year of the major LIRR order from EMD that introduced the GP38s,MP15s and SW1001s to the LIRR...
The LIRR not only retired all the older diesel units but also returned the leased EMD GP7s and/or GP9s to Bangor and Aroostook and Precision National Corporation
(leasing company)
Up to the point that these leased units arrived on the LIRR in the mid 70s the LIRR was an all-ALCO diesel railroad...something we will never see again...
The 1977 EMD order was arguably the most successful locomotive order in the history of the LIRR noting their longevity and noting that previously used locomotives had a short
LIRR use life in comparison...both the F-M C Liners and ALCO C420s (except 222-229) served the LIRR for under 15 years in each case...MACTRAXX

The EMDs lasted so long probably because they were not turbocharged. Turbochargers permit more horsepower with fewer cylinders, but along with that goes increased engine wear. GP-38s were not as fuel-efficient as the Alcos, but the extra cylinders with lower hp (16-cylinder model 645 normally aspirated + 2,000hp vs. 12 cylinder Alco model 251 engine with turbocharger = 2,000hp) meant that the engine didn't have to work as hard. And a turbocharger failure is expensive to fix.

The 12-cylinder model 710 engine in the DE and DM-30s is turbocharged, as are all 710s.