M3 Retirement, Scrapping

[Amtrak7]

Per the January committee meeting, the M3's will be gone at the end of this year due their not being equipped with PTC.

I have no idea how service will be made, but that's what was said...

[DutchRailnut]

I would seriously refer to that rumor as beyond crap, unless it magically starts raining M-9's
there are still 160 or so M3's in service or 16 000 seats per trip, were in hell would LIRR get replacements.
Wile PTC is being implemented there is no problem getting a waiver for PTC specially if that equipment is heading for scrapper.
Same with the 32 M-2's on Metro North of which replacements will not arrive till after the M-9's.

[Head-end View]

Not only what Dutch said, but for all we know Congress might yet (again) extend the deadline for implementation of PTC, like they did once already. I seriously doubt they would mandate a shutdown of half the railroads in the country because all the PTC systems are not ready yet.

[DutchRailnut]

the deadline is dec 31 2018, but extensions are already optional if honest effort is made to comply. and many railroads will need those extensions.
specially since part of PTC hold up has been Federal Government giving away the radio frequencies to cell phone companies and taking years to replace the radio spectrums.

[Backshophoss]

The M-3's have ATC/Cab signals(as do the remaining MN M-2's),so they can still be used without the ACSES gear,but,might get speed restricted
due to the lack of ACSES.

(LIRR and MN are installing ACSES as their PTC.)

[MattAmity90]

I hope they never get rid of a pair of M3's, ones that are preserved like the M1 pair at Riverhead. Speaking of which, they aren't going to get rid of those M1's are they? Thing is, those M1's if they want to make them museum material, they should have a new paint job, and have the interior rehabilitated to make it look genuine off the assembly line complete with a carpet and those sweet smelling leather upholstered seats.

Bye bye to my childhood.

-M1's in service for about 40 years. When I was a kid I thought they were built in the 80's, had no idea they were in service since 1968.
-Mushroom lights from 1968 onward. The design on the East end of Amityville, not the design on the East end of Merrick.
-M3's in service but for how long. I'm going to miss that idling noise with the HVAC beneath, and the double doors with those leather seats.

Things that were a part of my childhood that continue into adulthood that are still in service, or what is being done as I age.

-Ronkonkoma Branch Double-Track project (NTC last I checked was connecting the track lip on the East end of New Highway).
-East Side Access.
-M7's and the incoming M9's.
-Third Main Line track.
-LED red lights on grade crossing signals (example of childhood into adulthood).

[LINYARailfan]

What day and time will the next set of decommissioned M3s be sent on FCIX flat cars from LI City to Fresh Pond via NYA to be sent via CSX to Frontier Metals for scrapping? I may want to try to see them being sent off the property in LI City and in the Bronx. Thanks.

[MattAmity90]

A friend of mine was out in Yaphank and there were several M3 cars on the tracks. I don't know the numbers though because they usually rip the numbers above the engineer's cab on the side.

[upton]

9801 and 9802 are presently sitting on the siding in Yaphank and are being used (for right now) for K-9 training by the Suffolk County Police for bomb sniffing purposes.

[JamesRR]

Bye bye to my childhood.

-M1's in service for about 40 years. When I was a kid I thought they were built in the 80's, had no idea they were in service since 1968.
-Mushroom lights from 1968 onward. The design on the East end of Amityville, not the design on the East end of Merrick.
-M3's in service but for how long. I'm going to miss that idling noise with the HVAC beneath, and the double doors with those leather seats.

I grew up on the island in the 80s and the M1s and M3s were the only real rail cars I identified with. I remember the idling sound too, and I remember watching the M3s pull out, those exhaust fans blowing on the sides of the cars near the windows. It is sad to see them go - I always wished they simply based the new design on the M1 and just updated things like windows, doors, but kept the profile and front end design (which is strikingly sharp).

[DutchRailnut]

Those exhaust fans are intake fans for cooling of MA and traction motors .
the design of M1/3 is Budd company and can not be duplicated without authority of whomever owns design now (think Bombardier).

[BuddR32]

Those exhaust fans are intake fans for cooling of MA and traction motors .
the design of M1/3 is Budd company and can not be duplicated without authority of whomever owns design now (think Bombardier).

Dutch, you'd know more than me, but I recall reading somewhere that the Metropolitan design rights were transferred over to the MTA for the M4 M6, because at the time of the time of the M4 builds, Budd had stopped making cars (or was on the verge of it). However, the [other] Budd railcar design rights did get sold to Bombardier.

To the original question, the M1-M6 design was considered antiquated by the time the M7 came around. Also, changes in crash-worthiness, egress windows and the like the design would be totally different anyway.

[BuddR32]

9801 and 9802 are presently sitting on the siding in Yaphank and are being used (for right now) for K-9 training by the Suffolk County Police for bomb sniffing purposes.

I saw that and thought they couldn't have given them a better pair?

Like 9411-12 in Bethpage, they took so much off the cars before they went to the fire academy its sad.

[JamesRR]

Those exhaust fans are intake fans for cooling of MA and traction motors .
the design of M1/3 is Budd company and can not be duplicated without authority of whomever owns design now (think Bombardier).

Dutch, you'd know more than me, but I recall reading somewhere that the Metropolitan design rights were transferred over to the MTA for the M4 M6, because at the time of the time of the M4 builds, Budd had stopped making cars (or was on the verge of it). However, the [other] Budd railcar design rights did get sold to Bombardier.

To the original question, the M1-M6 design was considered antiquated by the time the M7 came around. Also, changes in crash-worthiness, egress windows and the like the design would be totally different anyway.

I thought the same thing, too. That the MTA owned the rights. I think a firm called Sundberg Ferar designed the cars (and the similarly designed R-44 for NYCTA), and possibly even the two-tone "M" logo.

BTW - has anyone ever noticed the side windows on the C-3 double deckers are very similar in design to the M1/3 windows?

[MattAmity90]

Bye bye to my childhood.

-M1's in service for about 40 years. When I was a kid I thought they were built in the 80's, had no idea they were in service since 1968.
-Mushroom lights from 1968 onward. The design on the East end of Amityville, not the design on the East end of Merrick.
-M3's in service but for how long. I'm going to miss that idling noise with the HVAC beneath, and the double doors with those leather seats.

I grew up on the island in the 80s and the M1s and M3s were the only real rail cars I identified with. I remember the idling sound too, and I remember watching the M3s pull out, those exhaust fans blowing on the sides of the cars near the windows. It is sad to see them go - I always wished they simply based the new design on the M1 and just updated things like windows, doors, but kept the profile and front end design (which is strikingly sharp).

I miss the idling sound too I'm going to miss it the most, it was so calming even though they were intake fans and the air conditioning. They moved those fans to the roof of the M7's above the ends of the cars. No matter the season they always had them on!