Railfanning

[lirrmike]

Well troops it is time for my annual “State of the Railfan” address.

I was in Long Island City a week or so, I had to work a day at the Ravenswood power station anyway, so after work I went down to the yards to ‘see the sights’. Well people it has really turned into a closed in world down there. The new fencing they are installing is very hard to see through much less photograph through. There was a spot where I could get track side a few hundred feet east of the eastbound tunnel portals, well now they have caught up with that place and are installing a heavy gate and there was an Amtrak cop right there, I didn’t even bother to ask. As you all might know, Honeywell St. is now open and there is really no way to do anything there with the high walls. It stinks! Please believe me I’m not stupid I know the way the world is now and I’m all for security knowing first hand what’s it like. But on the other hand it makes me mad that we, as railfans are being shut out of the things we love to do; watch and photograph trains.

Again I’ll float my idea about getting some sort of ID so we can at least near the tracks (not trespassing) to take pictures and not risk getting hassled. Yes there are some railfan morons who just give the rest of us a bad name by the way they act and trespass and other stupid things. But for the rest of us there has to be something we can do. I’m opening this up to all to throw this around and I know there are railroad people both in and outside who might have an idea. Thanks.

Mike

[M1 9147]

I'm on the works of something right now in either speaking to my uncle who works for the democratic party in Brooklyn, or my Aunt who was a lawyer for NYCTA, who is now a supreme court judge in Brooklyn in finding out what I can do from preventing to be harrassed by cops, and what nots. After being harrassed by an MTA cop at Penn Station on Friday, and filing complaints for the third time to the MTA on this, I am working very hard to find a way around that. To me the MTA, and others are doing everything they can to prevent terrorism, but should also realize that if railfans like us are being harrassed, it might pave the way to lawsuits if us people who are not even trespassing and just waiting for trains like I did from being unlawfully arrested.

[JoeLIRR]

I agree with your ideas. We as railfans definatly need some kind of (my opinion) rail fan photo ID. some form of ID that will alow us to go trackside as take pictures.

Neil, I was in Meneiola in November taking a film of a DE heading west on to the main from OB. To NCPD cops approched me and told me that if I didnt put the camera away that they would confinscate it and arest me.

(Sofar that was luckly my only experiance with the law interveening w/ us rail fans).

tho this might not fly well with the authorites, as rail fans watching trains we in a way will provide an extra "eye" to spot "suspisious" activites. As I see it we will be like undercover security gurds

(Thats just my 2 cents)

[SeldenJrFireman]

Carry a scanner with the MTA Police Frequencies. If you hear them responding to your location, That means it's time to go!

I haven't really had trouble with any police. I was taking pictures of an MU train going through the washer at KO. I noticed that there was an MTA police car sitting about 50 yards away from where i was. They were just watching to see what i was doing. They were also probably watching to make sure i didn't walk through the gate that was wide open for the whole world to walk through.

[bingdude]

Other transit agencies (MBTA in Boston in specifically) issue Photo Permits to those who want to take pix.

But, as a former holder of an official NYPD Press Credential, I should probably mention that if the MTA really does start doing this, there is no guarantee you still won't get hasselled by a gung-ho cop even if you have a pass.

Having been sent to Ground Zero for coverage a couple of times on 9/13 and 9/20; and to the one year anniversary on 9/11/02; and to the Plane crash in Belle Harbor, many of the officers didn't care about the green plastic tag with my picture on it, signed by the Chief clearly stating "...Is allowed to cross Police and Fire Lines where necessary." Usually after a while they'd let me through.

Just a sign of these times.

And the LAST thing you want to get caught with is a police scanner. Guarantee they'll take you in. You're SUSPICIOUS.

[JoeLIRR]

The MTA popo's probely were watching the gate, (it was to damm hard to fence that off or "close" the gate). besides as I said before. railfans in one respect can provide a well needed extra eye for the security of our railroad. think of is like this. say a railfan is walking active ROW somwhere and sees that several spikes/bolts have been removed and thinks it may be unsafe, we can actully call in to have all trains stoped in that area on the line. (that would only work if we rail fans were NOT CONCEDERED CRIMINALS)

I still think that a railfan ID should be issued. Maby at a national level. EX.. the NRHS issues its members railfan idcards of some type.
(NO!!! these card will not permit us to operate equpt LOL.)

[SeldenJrFireman]

Joe brings up a good point. a railfan is more prone to notice these defects before a popo will. the popos just look to make sure nobody is wandering on the track that shouldn't be. There last concern is if all the spikes are there and then thinks "oh,wait, thats what the maintenance crew is for" and goes back to Dunkin Donouts.

Railfans have probably walked the tracks longer than some police. After a while of walking the same part of the row (like out at MM56 where i roam) it is easier to spot something different.

I give the pass a thumbs up. Maybe it can be used to acces a "railfan only Area" at the Hillside facility or Morris park? just an idea.

Speaking of spikes- I have a pile of about 300 that my friend and I have collected of the roadbed within about 600-700 feet east and west of Mile Marker 56.

[CLiner2005]

Interesting subject - by coincidence, I read an article posted on the Fox News.Com on April 2, 2004 entitled "Feds Warn of Transit Terror Attacks."
I'd like to share, with the Forum members, a response that I sent to the authors of the article; Mike Emanuel, Catherine Herridge and Anna Stolley.


Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:17:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Joe Hagan" <[email protected]
Subject: Railroad Security
To: [email protected]



Editor:

Has anyone, to your knowledge, ever considered
utilizing the thousands-upon-thousands of "railfans"
that are out and about the nation's vast railroad
infrastructure on a daily basis. Railfans (railbuffs)
for the most part are extremely knowledgeable about
the railroads they frequent. They carry scaners,
cameras, binoculars and in most cases, cell phones.

By their very nature, these (I am one) individuals are
keenly observant - are detail oriented - and excellent
photographers.

If there are people loitering about railroad property
that look at all out of place, it will get the
attention of a railfan very quickly. Under normal
situations, the only persons that are common along
railroad right-of-way are employees of that railroad
performing their varied duties, and people like myself
who photograph trains for a hobby or for publication
in the many railway publications that abound. A great
deal of this activity is in behalf of the many
railroad historical organizations and preservation
societies throughout the U.S. and elsewhere.

Please understand that responsible railfans recognize
and abide by the private property rights of the
railroads. They are aware of the consequences of
trespassing and are compliant with these issues.

Many of the railfan community have become somewhat
discouraged, since 9/11, to pursue their interest in
rail photography because of the heightened security
concerns of the railroads and law enforcement
agencies. Some of these photographers have been
harrassed and even threatened with confiscation of
their camera equipment while standing on public
property.

My suggestion would be to turn this situation around
and use the resources of these thousands of
railroad-savey individuals/groups to further enhance
the security of our nation's railroad system -
volunteers-in-public-safety, an arm of Homeland
Security.

I'll guarantee you that if someone is near a rail
facility that doesn't belong there, that individual
or/or others will standout like a sore thumb to
bonifide rail enthusiasts - there's a "body language"
that goes with being a serious railfan.

Kick this thought around if you care to. There are so
many under-used and un-recognized resources that are
out there begging to be used, eyes and ears that could
make a difference.

Please feel free to contact me at any time.

Sincerely,

Joe Hagan

[Otto Vondrak]

I spend two days photographing the MBTA last December. That yellow photo pass from the T might as well have been gold plated- I was only approached twice by T employees or cops (turns out I was standing in an unsafe area)... wearing that yellow pass around my neck made the difference between a great day of railfanning and a long day of explaining myself over and over again.

http://railroad.net/articles/railfannin ... /index.php

If there was a way I could approach the MTA, say in an office in Grand Central and/or Penn Station, I would gladly register for a photo permit (I'd even be willing to pay a small fee)... if it meant that the harassment would go down. I think the police and employees would appreciate it too- it would give them a heads up as well. Let them know who's loitering and who's fanning responsibly, for instance.

-otto-

[thrdkilr]

This reminds me of the airports. They are doing body searches on grandmothers and Gore, why, so we know they are not asleep at the switch. Unfortunatly, that cow is already out of the door, and there are plenty of barns unlocked and un-thought of, they'll find them, mean while we are wasting time and resources in areas that are a waste of time. What people forget is that the gate screeners did nothing wrong that day, the solution was around for years, do like the Israilis. reinforce the cockpit doors, don't let them in under any circumstance, pilots put on Thier O2 mask, turn off cabin O2, depressurize the aircraft...
They didn't do this because of the couple of thousand dollars it would have cost per plane to install. Now look at the amount of money their spending on, basicly, PR. We know thier on the job, because they won't let Rail Fans take pictures, mean while all that exposed (99.9%) track out there in the country We could be helping watch.....

[badneighbor]

Can you picture some yo-yo getting an 'MTA Buff Credential'; then having his mangled corpse be picked off the tracks because he was in the wrong place when an unexpected train came through? Most of us know and fully understand the 'any track at any time' concept. But there are so very many people out there who were not blessed with basic common sense at birth. I'm sure the legal eagles would be reluctant to give non-employees access. Also, i'm sure that the same over-eager buff will think a pass to photograph trains will allow access to places they really don't belong. I like the idea, so that if I'm on the crossover bridge west of Ocean Avenue in Ronkonkoma, or at the many other places I go, I won't be hassled. I have only been approached once, back before they closed off the old Blue Point station.

[jayrmli]

So when Ali-Al-Akbar decides to become a railfan and apply, what do we do? Deny him and then risk a lawsuit?

Please remember we are at war with an enemy unlike any other we've faced before. If your hobby was taking pictures of Navy warships, do you think the government would allow you a pass to enter their bases just because you said you're a safe risk? I don't think so.

Has anyone on this forum ever been arrested for taking pictures of trains? I don't think so. Maybe you have been asked to leave, but given the gravity of world events today, including a terrorist strike on a railroad within the past month, I think we shouldn't complain too much on this one.

Jay

[SeldenJrFireman]

You turn to Ali-Al-Akbar and tell him "All available passes have been issued." How will he know the difference?

[JoeLIRR]

SeldenJrFireman,

I like that idea, as long as we dont get caught doing that I think it may work. Also all pass holders must be regersted w/ the NRHS.

Passes would only allow us to enter the properity we enter now with out the risk of getting taken in for performing our hobby.

[SeldenJrFireman]

Just thought of something else. You ask Mr. Akbar if he would like to be notified when passes become available. If he says yes, have him fill out a card with all his information on it and when he leaves, it gets forwarded to the local authorities for them to do a follow up.


Also-while roaming the land at 56 yesterday, I noticed something different as soon as I walked into the woods. I found a blue shopping cart a while back and put it there, but it was gone. I then found it down the hill right next to the track. I immeadiately brought it back up the hill. It was partially my fault it was there because I was the one to bring it back there to my "hidin' spot," but that obviously means there has been activity between last week and this week.

And, If any of the NYA and LIRR Employees read this-could you please give the area ontop of the hill about 20 feet east of the MM56 sign where the shopping cart is know a look when you go past. There is a pigeon auction place next door to my train club that is in that industrial park. They have been dumping some feathers and other stuff out there as well as some seed-which i feel is the main reason all those deer have been killed there.

Thanks-Mike
(sorry to get off topic a little)