Caltrain Electrification

[Nicholas Chen]

They won't electrify to Gilroy. I believe the plan is to have those trains run to 4th and King but not to the Transbay Terminal.

[ExCon90]

So they're going to keep 4th & King in service? I just assumed it would disappear.

[Nicholas Chen]

I believe so.

[Backshophoss]

The "shared" trackage of CP Coast thru CP Cahill would include UP freights,Caltrain(JPBX),Altamont Commuter Express,
Amtrak-Ca Capitol corridor services and the Coast Starlight,Also the "LOSSAN" services on the Coast Line
The Jct of the CAHSR route from the central Ca(and LA)area adds a new variable to this section of track,
so whatever CAHSR decides on the Catenary Specs will play a role on what happens.
It's going to get crowded thru San Jose(Didron) station.

[lensovet]

Might there still be a problem between Coast and Cahill? And will wires reach Gilroy, and if not, will Caltrain need dual-mode locomotives?

Caltrain runs just three trains each way to Gilroy on weekdays and zero trains on weekends. With such low numbers I suspect they could just run shuttles and make people transfer.

[ebtmikado]

As long as the catenary is installed high enough, there should not
affect freight service.

Lee

[bdawe]

It's not just a matter of clearance. Caltrain's waivers for non-compliant railcars specify temporal separation from freight, so I'm not entirely sure how that will be accomplished for trains headed through to the Coast Line

[freightguy]

Thanks for the replies. I was curious from when TRAINS did an article in 2007 on local service around San Fransico and those shared UP/Caltrain lines. Reminds of what goes on in Northeast with shared commuter and freight operations.

With so much changed with the economy since 2007 was wondering how many customers UP had left on that segment....

[lensovet]

i hear the trains go by multiple times a week, maybe even daily.

[ExCon90]

It's not just a matter of clearance. Caltrain's waivers for non-compliant railcars specify temporal separation from freight, so I'm not entirely sure how that will be accomplished for trains headed through to the Coast Line

Do we know they're not going to be FRA compliant? The latest I can find on their website is that they are "moving forward" on a design for the cars. There's no way they could run from Santa Clara to San Jose without being compliant--or without a waiver, and who can say whether they'd get one? I would think not.

[electricron]

Do we know they're not going to be FRA compliant? The latest I can find on their website is that they are "moving forward" on a design for the cars. There's no way they could run from Santa Clara to San Jose without being compliant--or without a waiver, and who can say whether they'd get one? I would think not.

You're assuming Caltrain will be running in shared tracks over the UP owned portion of the corridor in the future. It's possible Caltrain will lay brand new passenger only tracks paralleling the freight tracks using CHSR funds, in which case a waiver wouldn't be needed for non-FRA compliant double level EMUs. Non-FRA compliant CHSR trains will also face the same obstacle of getting waivers on the UP owned tracks, so I believe it's highly likely new passenger only tracks will be laid.
Of course, temporal separation waivers will probably place freight operations on Caltrain owned tracks to the wee hours after midnight.

[MattW]

I don't think the catenary wires and poles will cause the UP any problems because low wires will effect double stack containers and tall auto racks, which I doubt the UP needs to service in San Francisco or on its peninsula. All of the facilities for these type of cars are located not the east side of the bay where there will be no catenaries. And if the wires are hung high enough, even these types of cars can run under them.

Why would that be an issue? Double stacks and autoracks run under wire here in the east just fine.

[electricron]

Didn't I state there would be no problem if the catenary was hung high enough?
Back east, the entire NEC is not wired with 25,000 Volts at 60 Hertz, as would probably be the case in California.
The minimum clearance between a live wire and a working surface, in this case the top of the rail cars, or th rail cars envelope, to the live wire, is 9 feet for voltages between 7,501 Volts and 35,000 Volts. OSHA regulation 1910.303(h)(5)(v).

A Superliner car height is 16 feet 2 inches, A Horizon car height is 13 feet. An Amfleet car height is 12 feet 8 inches. A Charger locomotive height is 12 feet 6 inches.
For a Superliner car to run under a future CHSR catenary safely, the live wire will need to be 25 feet 2 inches high. For BNSF and KCS Autoracks which have a height of 20 feet 2 inches, the live wire will need to be 29 feet 2 inches high. To clear the tallest railcars, the pantograph might have to span 18 feet 8 inches vertically using the Charger's height.

[lensovet]

It's not just a matter of clearance. Caltrain's waivers for non-compliant railcars specify temporal separation from freight, so I'm not entirely sure how that will be accomplished for trains headed through to the Coast Line

Do we know they're not going to be FRA compliant? The latest I can find on their website is that they are "moving forward" on a design for the cars. There's no way they could run from Santa Clara to San Jose without being compliant--or without a waiver, and who can say whether they'd get one? I would think not.

The presentation from 2014 specifically says "• FRA Waiver / Alternative Compliant Vehicles Criteria" as part of the RFP requirements.

[CHTT1]

I recall seeing an article several years ago about UP freight traffic on the CalTrain rotue. It seems like these were just switch runs to local industries. Any ocean-going cargo traffic out of Bay Area is from Oakland, so no need for double stacks or auto rack clearance.