Railroad Forums 

  • EMD, Detroit Diesel and Winton

  • Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.
Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

 #64237  by Trackbolt
 
The two cycle diesel engines in first and sencond generation EMD locomotives and the two cycle diesels produced by GM in their former Detroit Diesel Division had many similarities. Is the two cycle Detroit Diesel related to the early Winton engines that preceeded EMD.

Thanks

 #64270  by mxdata
 
The design of the very successful Detroit Diesel 71 series engine (many thousands of them were built), the Winton 201A and its Cleveland Diesel successors, and the EMD 567, were all supported by an incredibly talented group of engineers who worked with the GM Research Laboratory. This is the primary reason all of these engines share certain "family" design similarities.

There is a fairly detailed explanation of the design coordination and linkage between the divisions in the article on the development of the FT locomotive that was published in the November 1989 issue of Railfan & Railroad magazine, if you have access to it through a library or publication service.

 #65673  by dave76
 
I've seen Detroit Diesel 8-92 twin turbo models installed in yachts making 750 HP, thats awsome.

 #82262  by jesse corbett
 
For years, the EMD and Detroit Diesel fuel injectors for two cycle engines were manufactured side by side in Grand Rapids MI. For years it was an integral part of detroit diesel but was spun off when GM sold Detroit Diesel to an outfit called DTC which stood for Diesel Technology Corp. EMD became a "step child" during those days and with low production requirements began to take a back seat in the DTC scheme of things.

Today, Detoit Diesel is a division of Diamler Chrysler but I have not kept up with their injector production. EMD on the other hand now sources its new and rebuilt injectors from Interstate Injector (not Interstate Detroit Diesel)

The 71 and 92 series "detroits" are still popular in marine and industrial applications. One of the most common outfits that does marine detroits is Towers and Johnson who tweeks a 71 oir 92 series up to triple their original hp largely through the use of increasing air flow and fuel rates as well as engine speed. The engines in the yachts run extremely well but their hours of life is drastically cut before rebuild is required. The last yacht I tinkered with was equipped with a twin turbo DDEC controlled 671 rated at 400 hp. Not bad for a little engine originally built to produce about 100. Emissions and fuel economy are taking their toll though and the 2 cycle detroits are loosing favor to detroits newer 4 strokes the 40, 50, and 60 series for comparable horsepower with great success and much less problems with noise and of course oil leaks.

 #82474  by EDM5970
 
There is an excellent Winton history in the Kalmbach publication on streamline trains that just came out. It covers a lot of ground including the unit injector, Boss Ket's yachts, railcar engines, and the submarine engines. Well worth reading, it filled in a lot of blanks for me.

 #85580  by Engineer Spike
 
Don't forget the Cleveland diesels. We discussed it while we were discussing marine engines. My friend is in a group of Navy Vets who are restoring a ship. The Cleveland engine in iit is very close in size and power ratings to a 567. My friend said that he planned to cross check the part #'s to see if some EMD parts may be used. This would be good because many of the Cleveland designs are so out of date, and have been sold off to aftermarket suppliers. We all know that many old Geeps are still in service.

 #85699  by trainmaster_1
 
The 6V71N and 6V92N are still used in buses, as a matter of fact I am currently working at the bus maintaince facility (Duncan Shops) at the TTC at Hillcrest Yard where the 6V71N and 6V92N engines are rebuilt and put into buses for service, the 6V71N engine is used in the GM and Flyer and GM/MCI buses and the 6V92N engines are used on the Orion 5 buses. This is 1940's technology that still works today which I'm really surprised, and they still work well.

 #85761  by SSW9389
 
Ditto the recommendation to read "Winton Engines" in Kalmbach's Streamliner Pioneers a Special Collector's Edition to Classic Trains Magazine. There is a lot of the early history of the development of these engines in the article by Carl Byron.
EDM5970 wrote:There is an excellent Winton history in the Kalmbach publication on streamline trains that just came out. It covers a lot of ground including the unit injector, Boss Ket's yachts, railcar engines, and the submarine engines. Well worth reading, it filled in a lot of blanks for me.

 #118869  by 498
 
Carl's excellent article mentions the Winton / Cleveland Diesel engines preserved in several fleet submarines. In addition to those, the USS SLATER, a surviving destroyer escort berthed in Albany, New York is entirely equipped with Cleveland Diesel engines for both propulsion and ships service power generation. One of those engines was recently overhauled and made operable again. In addition, there are still at least five tugboats in the Boston area which still use Cleveland Diesel engines for propulsion (the Ethel Tibbetts, the Capmoore, the Cross Harbor I., the Patrick McAllister, and the Cynthia) so there is still the opportunity to hear these engines being operated.

 #119482  by Engineer Spike
 
the engine on the Slater, which Dr. Gus rebuilt looks like it was just built. He was the one who told me that he wanted to check if the injectors on the Cleveland main engines matched those of a 567.

 #129478  by 498
 
On recent visit I found "Gus" at work on the ship's emergency diesel generator which had a gear train problem, he has that pretty much taken care of now. He also has one of the bigger 8-268A engines in the process of being rebuilt. For anyone interested in Winton / Cleveland Diesel engines the USS SLATER is a "must see" priority. It is located right in downtown Albany, New York, at the Port of Albany. Easy access, good parking, great people, and a superbly restored ship! And for anyone interested in getting to work on these 60+ year old diesel engines, the ship is always looking for volunteers who can provide help on the various projects.