EMD "DD-series" official thread (covers all variations)

Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

Phil Hom

EMD "D" Truck

Post by Phil Hom »

This item is covered in the US Patent and Trademark office. It is US patent number 3,313,244 (granted 11 April 1964, filed May 15 1964)

While Alco and GE used span bolster in their dual high horsepower freight locomotive, EMD engineer Ludvil F. Koci designed this truck since the truck weights less than a dual B truck with its span bolster. In addition a span bolster raises the height of the locomotive which means a higher center of gravity.

The patent has two claims, both are very technical and not spelled out in layman terms. You can view this patent on the USPTO.gov web site once you download the TIFF reader on your computer or use another web site if the supprt patents before 1977.

.Taurus.
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DD 40 and DD 35 ? covers on sideway above 2nd truck

Post by .Taurus. »

Hello
whats behind/ in these covers (rounded top) below the N of Union Pacific resp. above the rear truck?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=223707

the DD40 have them on both sides;
and the DD35 have them only on the conductor side

Greets :-D

DutchRailnut
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Post by DutchRailnut »

Believe those are rear sand boxes
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

Retired Triebfahrzeugführer. I am not a moderator.

pennsy
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Post by pennsy »

Correct, those are sand reservoirs for delivering sand to the rails for traction enhancement.

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GOLDEN-ARM
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DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by GOLDEN-ARM »

If it's an EMD, and it's got two diesels riding on that frame, then ask your questions, make your comments, and get your info HERE!!! :-D

NV290
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Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by NV290 »

More then likley, you will never see any reincarnation of the beasts, even modernized.

As has already been pointed out, the fact that building ONE loco to replace two can actually hurt you when you have an issue with one being in the shop or failing line of road.

The other is the traction issue. Traction now is the biggest limiting factor in locomotive pulling power. Building more powerful loco's HP wise is not an issue, getting that power to the rail is. I run AC6000's almost daily, and i get wheel slip almost daily. And that is with 6,000hp distributed over 6 wheels. The idea of trying to squeeze two 6,000hp engines in one frame and then putting each through a 4 axle truck would not work. I don't even thing you could do it with 4,000 hp per truck.

Wheel slip systems have made incredible advancements but there is only so far you can go. Radial trucks have helped as well not just in traction but also in track wear prevention. But the trucks have more moving parts and higher upkeep bills. The GE Radial trucks on our 6,000's have been problematic as they wear rapidly.

I highly doubt any railroad would want to buy a loco that is even an ultra modern version of a DD40. There are far too many cons vs pros.

Engineer Spike
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Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by Engineer Spike »

First, the DD35 was 2 GP35s on one chassis, and the DD40 was 2 GP40s. These engines were meant for high speed operation. I don't think that this wold be possible for a unit designed for maximum TE. In spite of all the advances with AC traction and wheel slip systems, eventually we will reach the maximum power vs te. It is impossible of surpass the laws of physics.
Earlier posts have talked about the fact that a failure of one unit means more problems, the fewer units on the train. I'll give you an example. Where I work, we used to get 4 unit consists of SD40s. One time a pinion broke. We were able to set out the unit, along with about 25% of the tonnage. Now we have 2 AC units. If this happened now, we would have to leave half of the train, unless there was a spare unit to pick up.

splitrock323

Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by splitrock323 »

DDA40X's were built in the pre Dash-2 era. But they had many dash-2 components. Which fans did they have for cooling? I want to kitbash my models with better looking fans and wondering if I should use late SD40/45 fans or early dash-2 types?

Any help or reference pictures woould help.

Thanks,

Thomas

SAR RX

Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by SAR RX »

Just wondering if anybody can tell me how many, if any DD40x's are still in existance or preservation? I'm down here in Australia and finding info on these locos is a bit difficult. I'll try Wiki, but I'm not always sure whether the information on there is up to date.
Thanks.

Allen Hazen
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Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by Allen Hazen »

SAR RX--
I think the DD-35 were all scrapped. Union Pacific has kept one DD-ao "Centennial," which they use on special trains. I think at least one other Centennial has been preserved for static display: possibly at the California State Railroad Museum in Portola.
.... Wasn't Australia in danger of getting its own double diesels at one stage? I seem to remember that one proposal a decade or so back-- not sure whether it was a bid for the NSW request that led to the 82 and 90 class or for the National Rail request that led to the NR class-- was from Morrison-Knudsen, who wanted to build a locomotive powered by two 12-645 engines.

Jtgshu
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Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by Jtgshu »

SAR RX wrote:Just wondering if anybody can tell me how many, if any DD40x's are still in existance or preservation? I'm down here in Australia and finding info on these locos is a bit difficult. I'll try Wiki, but I'm not always sure whether the information on there is up to date.
Thanks.
Here ya go, a great site with a bunch of info

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/centennials/
On the RR, "believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see"
John, aka "JTGSHU" passed away on August 26, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion to railroading at railroad.net.

SAR RX

Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by SAR RX »

Thankyou very much for your replies Gentlemen, most appreciated.

I have never heard of that proposal Allen, you are right though, why two 12-645's? Bit of a crazy idea, but having worked in the industry nothing surprises me anymore.

Thanks for the link Jtgshu, I'll be checking it out when I finish here. I would love to see one in action, but I don't fly so unfortunately I'll never make it to the states to see one. Luckily we have some very nice EMD units over here for me to enjoy.

Cheers.

Allen Hazen
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: Edmonton, Canada (formerly Melbourne, Australia)

Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by Allen Hazen »

SAR RX--
Re: "why two 12-645's? Bit of a crazy idea, but having worked in the industry nothing surprises me anymore."

I don't have any sources at hand at the moment (the proposal was reported in one or another of the Australian railway-interest magazines at the time), and my memories are now nearly 20 years old! I think the motivation was fairly mundane: the potential buyer wanted a 4000 (or 4000+) horsepower locomotive, and M-K could provide 645 engines (I think they had at that time recently come up with a new (cast?) crankcase, and between that and components supplied by aftermarket suppliers could assemble all-new 645 engines with no EMD parts) but didn't have access to anything more powerful that was widely accepted in the rail industry. (They used big Caterpillar engines on their (U.S.) MK5000 demonstrator units, but they didn't sell....) So the only way they could get the desired power was by using two engines. ... The resulting locomotive would have been too heavy for general service in Australia, I suppose, but if the "request for proposals" had come from one of the Pilbara iron ore railroads, or from NSWGR with dedicated service in the Hunter Valley in mind, it might have been feasible.

SAR RX

Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by SAR RX »

Allen,
The thought of an M-K EMD clone with a cast case scares me, not the sort of loco I'd trust. The U.S M-K's with the CATs looked interesting though, I read a write up on them in Popular Mechanics. After the AN experience with the M-K rebuilds it seemed not many other Rail companies were to keen on them here in Australia.
I know what you mean about 20 year old memories, it's the same here with me!

Luckily I have a very good video of the Centennnials that I have just about worn out. Awesome machines, but I'm afraid I'll have to settle for the odd AN class EMD to get my fix.

Fan Railer
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Re: DD-35 and DD-40(X) Series Locos. Find it all HERE!!!

Post by Fan Railer »

what was the rating for an individual traction motor in hp for the DD-40X?

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