about EMD services and maintenance

[hetfieldkaloo]

hi everyone,
i am jarrod genzel form univ. of illinois. I am currently pursuing my graduation in electrical engg. and working on a research paper for locomotive maintenance and servicing. i would like to know about Electromotive diesel and its locomotive maintenance overall .... if anyone could give me inputs URLs any information regarding the same it would be very helpful.
i would like to know about few queries like :
1) EMD has a very simple component design which is being encashed by local vendors by supplying spares of their own make... what is EMD doing to stop this.
2) what is the layout design of a standard loco shed and depot and what is the EMD depot layout .....
3) Along with the maitenance what are the services provided by EMD few details if possible
thanks a lot for the patient reading and i would be greatful to get inputs from anyone regarding my queries
jarrod goenzel

[DutchRailnut]

Its a research paper so research, If we do it for you, do we get a degreee ??

[ExEMDLOCOTester]

Drive on over to 55th and Plainfield Roads in McCook and ask the people that work on that piece of property. Its a 30 minute ride from Downtown.

[Nelson Bay]

55th & Plainfield? Yeah right. Lotsa people work there- either in the Jewel grocery store, the pizza joint, the convenience store or the dry cleaners. Folks at 55th between East and First Avenues may know a little more about EMD however, they'll probably give a response similiar to Dutch's- research? Sure - go somewhere else and research.

[conrail_engineer]

i would like to know about few queries like :
1) EMD has a very simple component design which is being encashed by local vendors by supplying spares of their own make... what is EMD doing to stop this.

Nothing. They encourage it; or they did in the GM era.

Why? Liability limitation. Railroad employees are covered under FELA, which makes lawsuits on employers and manufacturers easy in cases of railroad industry injuries. So, GM eschewed use of its own glass...its own heaters...its own wiper machinery...its own electrical controls. Everything POSSIBLE to outsource was so done...right down to air gauges and ammeter.

So if a window failed or a control stand caught fire, the target of the lawsuit would be a small garage-shop with no real assets. Not GM.

[ExEMDLOCOTester]

55th & Plainfield? Yeah right. Lotsa people work there- either in the Jewel grocery store, the pizza joint, the convenience store or the dry cleaners. Folks at 55th between East and First Avenues may know a little more about EMD however, they'll probably give a response similiar to Dutch's- research? Sure - go somewhere else and research.

Good point...... 55th & Joliet if it hasn't fallen in the quarry...

[EDM5970]

Sorry, but I don't agree with Conrail_Engineer here.

Why make what you can buy? The idea was to maximize profit and keep costs down. Smaller items, like the aforementioned wiper motors, glass, controls, and heaters were just a purchase order away. All of the builders concentrated their time and effort on things they simply COULDN'T buy on the outside market.

They all bought engine builders and developed thier own prime movers, pretty much as part of a general unhappiness with what was available commercially. EMD built its own transmissions; they felt that this was more cost-effective than purchasing form GE or Westinghouse. Frames and fabricated steelwork was in-house, but compressors were purchased form Gardner-Denver or WABCO. Air brakes were WABCO or New York Air Brake.

EMD used outside vendors like Vapor, Singer, Square D and Cutler-Hammer for control relays and time delays, but these items were built to EMD specs. All speciality items, but not the kind of thing, and in the numbers, that a big company like EMD was geared up to build at a reasonable profit. Can you picture EMD making and using its own light bulbs? (GE, yes, but thats another story---)

I think the bean counters had it down to a science about just what components should be made inhouse and what should be outsourced. I don't think product liability was really the issue; after all, there is product liability insurance. I'm sure all the builders had some form of it.

[Nelson Bay]

55th & Plainfield? Yeah right. Lotsa people work there- either in the Jewel grocery store, the pizza joint, the convenience store or the dry cleaners. Folks at 55th between East and First Avenues may know a little more about EMD however, they'll probably give a response similiar to Dutch's- research? Sure - go somewhere else and research.

Good point...... 55th & Joliet if it hasn't fallen in the quarry...

It may have. I wonder if Saban's is still there & if you have to crawl down a ladder to get a beer?

[ExEMDLOCOTester]

55th & Plainfield? Yeah right. Lotsa people work there- either in the Jewel grocery store, the pizza joint, the convenience store or the dry cleaners. Folks at 55th between East and First Avenues may know a little more about EMD however, they'll probably give a response similiar to Dutch's- research? Sure - go somewhere else and research.

Good point...... 55th & Joliet if it hasn't fallen in the quarry...

It may have. I wonder if Saban's is still there & if you have to crawl down a ladder to get a beer?

Next time I am in the area I'll look around. I always confused Joliet & Plainfield roads even tho I traveled Joliet rd from 45 to East ave. TWICE every day. I do remember the sand pile butting against the Belt line / Joliet rd overpass.

BTW 1st ave and 55th don't intersect west of the river.

[Mike Walsh]

Its a research paper so research, If we do it for you, do we get a degreee ??

don't rag on him.. He is asking for information on the subject, and while not obvious he is also asking for assistance in finding the information. It is possible that he has not got a clue as to where to begin looking, or has run into a brick wall, which has a locked door to which others have a key to.. and is hoping that posting will help him gain access to the other side of the wall. I have done some research topics related to railroads and asked others, and they were able to direct me to a source which enabled me to come away with an A on my research paper.

So, give him a break. Besides, in all technicality, he cannot use the information that is acquired here because there is no legit citation. This is why it would be best that everyone provide sources of information (such as, if the information was copied/pasted from another website, PASTE the link as well, so he can cite the website accordingly. Same for a book, tell him the name of the book, the author, or even better, the ISBN number).

Just trying to help. Liberal arts papers, especially research papers, are a pain in the tuchus to compile, and it helps to get information wherever they can.

Mike Walsh
Computer Integrated Machining Technologies Degree -- fall 07
Manufacturing Engineering Technology Degree -- Sometime in 2009 or 2010
Rochester Institute of Technology

[conrail_engineer]

Sorry, but I don't agree with Conrail_Engineer here.

Why make what you can buy? The idea was to maximize profit and keep costs down. Smaller items, like the aforementioned wiper motors, glass, controls, and heaters were just a purchase order away. All of the builders concentrated their time and effort on things they simply COULDN'T buy on the outside market.

Well, with GM's huge contracts for window glass...why did they seek out a niche marketer, Sully? With their huge capacity to manufacture...why bid out things like heater boxes and wipers to itty-bitty contractors like PRIME and Air-Push?

Why make what you can buy? How about better quality control? I never had blower-motor problems in a car like the always-squeaky heater units in EMDs. Ditto wipers...GM has had cars with reliable wipers for YEARS, including air wipers on its heavy trucks. Yet we STILL have constant problems with these contract items on locomotives. And, how about seats?

If the contracted items were limited to high-voltage electrical switching hardware or handbrake parts, I could see it. But with the push to contract out EVERYTHING, including gauges and ammeters...the kinds of things GM made itself for other product lines...I have to believe it's legal-think applied.

[EDM5970]

Believe what you want-

[GOLDEN-ARM]

Let's keep it civil, guys. So he's in college, and his spelling is off, as well as his grammar....... Provide some answers, or let it slide. His two posts are being watched, and if he's real, we'll know. If not, we'll know that too. Regards

[QuietGuy]

Mr. Genzel I will give you a direct answer to your questions.

1. I disagree that the components are simple, but the designs are old, and have been improved over the years to become better and better. The same engine that orignally put out 1000 Hp now can put out 3000 Hp, same block, but bigger & better pistons, rods, crankshafts, carriers, & liners. Every component that failed was analized by material scientests, modeled on computers, instrumented in tests to verify the models, remodeled, then re-designed and tested in long term durability tests to assure it was improved, then sent out as a new part number. At one time I was involved in this, and know the effort. EMD didn't like to patent its products - someone could take the patent data & make an inprovement. They preferred trade-secret route to keep their product design secret. Many outfits have back-engineered many common parts and figured out how to make them cheaper, but in EMD's analysis of those parts, none were better or even equal. EMD didn't try to compete on price, but on quality or reliability. Many EMD customers tried to get low price bids on replacement parts and got what they paid for. But some felt the low price was worth the higher rate of unscheduled failures.

2. EMD doesn't have standard depot or layouts. Those were set up by the customers (read railroads). EMD did start to manage maintenance for them, but uses the customers (railroads) own people and facilities, but supplied EMD parts. Railroad unions are hard to manage by the railroads, but by outsourcing the management to EMD, some improvements were made, since it was a third party. EMD has not had a good time with its own unions, that is why they outsourced many product fabrication, so they didn't have to deal with their own unions. This doen't eem to affect the maintenance management with the customers.

3. EMD can put survailance on most new locomotives to track location and status of the locos. This can also predict failures or when something should be shut down & repaired before it becomes a catastrophic failure. Few customers have seen this as having value and would rather live with the couple of failures per locomotive year and the loss of revenue.