repowering G16

[xerxes]

I want to know that if we want to repower this kind of locomotive (G16)
under these condition:
1-with no changes on structure
2-with some changes on structure
how many horsepower can we increase on engine at maximum for two mentioned condition?
and on second condition with some changes on structure which part of structure must be repowered?

[Allen Hazen]

By G16 I take it you mean the export type locomotive from 1950s/1960s, powered by a 16-cylinder 567 engine (probably 567C)?
During the 1970s the Illinois Central Gulf railroad had an extensive program of rebuilding GP-7 and GP-9 locomotives at the workshops of the former Illinois Central railroad in Paducah, Kentucky (the products of this program are often referred to as "Paducah Geeps" or "Paducah Rebuilds."

They generally increased the rating by 100 horsepower while retaining the 16-567 engine: GP-7 (originally built with 16-567B engines and rated at 1500hp) came out as "GP-8" rated at 1600, and GP-9 (originally built with 16-567C engines and rated at 1750hp) came out as "GP-10" rated at 1850hp.

There were some carbody modifications (the units were rebuilt with low noses and got new air filter boxes), but these were probably not needed for the power increase. Many 567B engines were rebuilt to what were referred to as "567BC" standard (I'm not sure whether these were identical to the 567BC engines EMD produced late in the history of the F7 and GP7 models), but I think the changes were motivated more by a desire to improve maintainability than they were necessary for the higher power output. The major change connected to the power increase was to the exhaust system (substitution of a four-stack "liberated exhaust" for the original two stack system). Engine cooling may also have been modified, but not in a visible way: rebuilt units had the same array of four 36-inch radiator fans as unrebuilt.

At a more serious level of engine modification, several U.S. railraods put 645 power assemblies onto the engine frame of a 567C (or 567D), producing 2000 hp locomotives (equivalent of a GP-38 or SD-38 -- or, for your purposes, a GP-26) from one originally rated at 1750 (or from a 2250 or 2500 hp turbocharged model of the early 1960s while replacing the turbocharger with the lower maintenance cost Roots blower).

[USRailFan]

Illinois Central rebuilt some locos into GP11s too - did these also have 567s, or did they get 645s?

[mxdata]

I would recommend that the person posting the original question write to:

Electro-Motive Diesel
9301 West 55th Street
La Grange, IL 60525 USA

Or call telephone: 708-387-6000 (USA)

There were modernization recommendations covering what you can and cannot do to modernize export locomotives. You should obtain the proper factory information rather than relying on postings on an internet discussion.

[Allen Hazen]

Let me IMMEDIATELY second Mxdata's recommendation (and thank him for providing the address)-- my posting was only relevant if the project is at the very preliminary stage of "What COULD we do?" rather than the "How do we do it?" stage.
EMD (or at least its Australian licensee) have been involved in modernizations-- of varying degrees of radicalism-- of many export units.
---
USrailfan--
Don't bet large sums of money on my memory, but I think the GP-11 still had 567 engines, but more extensive modernization in other regards.

[xerxes]

dear Mr allen
the project is in study stage and all the things we want to know is that :
what cuold be the ceiling for engine power of this kind of locomotive , at present we have 1950 brake hp and we want to know if is there possiblity to use for example 3000 hp or more on this loco or not , the major problem should be the structure of loco for pull and push affects . i heard that in serbia they erpowerd this kind of loco to 2800 hp but i dont know is it the ceiling for it or not and for more traction effort what is the restriction .

[Klesse]

Xerxes,
Before putting these kind of projects on table and specifieing the range of modifications, following questions to be replied:

1.Do we have a potential customer? and what's its requirements?
Always customer specifies the conditions because he knows:
a) How many locomotives do he need?
b) How much power must locomotives have?
c) How long will be these locomotives used?
d) How much are the main expenditures?
e) Which are the most important RAMS parameters? and their targets? (RAMS parameters: Reliability, Availability, maintainiblity and safety )

This is the reason that in North America the "class A" railroads fleet average age is 8 to 15 years while in this region there are companies who are using vintage 50s locomotives with no to moderate modernizations efficiently!

2. What is potentially in our stock or scrap yard? and what we can do with them!
Scrap yards are the source of cheap make up and pedicure for these fat and old babes! be honest these kind of projects are only lucrative for those who have a source of parts in stock in reality or potentially.

But if you are a rail fan (as I can guess) these are my replies:

I want to know that if we want to repower this kind of locomotive (G16)
under these condition:
1-with no changes on structure

AFAIK the case is not the frame or chassis they can withstand half a million pound buff load according to AAR, so you don't need to strengthen the chassis and potentially there is no limitation in comparing with new 4000 hp ones as far as you are taking care to don't exceed axle load and don't change the balance of weight on frame.

2-with some changes on structure

You don't need to make any change on structure for obtaining more power.

how many horsepower can we increase on engine at maximum for two mentioned condition?

It depends on the engines and generators in market with light and high speed engines. I think up to 4000 hp is viable. but the most economic case will be overhauled 12- 645E3B (2475 hp) and AR6-CA5 alternator (it will cost roughly 150000 to 200000 bucks - if you have in your scrap yard, you can have a UTEX deal)

and on second condition with some changes on structure which part of structure must be repowered?

Already answered.