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  • BL2 Story

  • Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.
Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

 #186797  by Centurylover68
 
I have heard different stories on why the BL2 was so unpopular and I want to get this straightened out. Story 1: The engine was a poor performer and railroads hated it and wouldn't buy it. Story 2: Railroads loved the engine, but it's weird body shape made it hard to move so instead of moving the locomotive to the workers, the workers had to come to the locomotive and it took to long to build them. Which is true?

 #186804  by junction tower
 
Well for one thing, it was marketed as a road switcher, yet visability sucked. Max Ephraim stated in a Trains Magazine article that he was assigned to a team to address over 50 major and minor faults in the BL2 design. I think a lack of customer interest, and perhaps the decision by
EMD to "try again" killed it.

 #186926  by Typewriters
 
Probably a combination of factors. The "BL" originally was designed for just what that designation implies -- branch lines. But might have had to head passenger trains, so that styling appeared important. Who knows exactly what the original design team was thinking.

The cab arrangement did not offer the kind of visibility obtained with competitive road switchers, and the rear control stand (if fitted) was in a really awkward position. This would not have helped officials examining the prototype decide to buy these over something else, like an ALCO-GE or Baldwin (perhaps with A1A trucks) for branch line service. Headroom in the engine room was also marginal at best.

The machine, as-built new, was just not competitve with the other units either in terms of accessibility for maintenance. You could quickly remove the whole hood on an ALCO-GE or Baldwin (or F-M) but you could only remove roof hatches on the BL-2. This meant that you had to have certain requirements for the shops where BL-2's would be maintained, likely not conducive to basing them "out in the sticks."

Later, another problem cropped up with them, which was cracking of the frames when used in multiple unit consists as trailing units in a frequent manner. This was documented in at least one book, and is not all that surprising given the original design for 'single unit only' operation and the light weight.

Naturally, one wonders if the real intent of the BL-2 was indeed to go "head to head" with the true road switchers offered by others. One would think that the very application of the "branch line" designation implies a slightly different set of requirements than "road switcher," based solely upon what was perceived at the time about utilization and flexibility. This was long before motive power pools, was well inside the day of lightly-built branch lines, and was at the tail end of roads buying specific units for specific assignments. In that light, and perhaps in that light only, the BL-2 may not seem quite so bad in concept. Naturally, the railroads had nothing to compare it to but road freight, road passenger and road switcher units; choosing to compare it with the road switchers solely on the optional ability for dual-directional operation is that choice which dooms it.

None of the aforementioned problems was found with the GP-7, which absolutely was deliberately engineered to compete with the road switchers offered by the other builders. Some other things were engineered IN to the GP-7, but that's really another whole story.

-Will Davis

 #187566  by mxdata
 
Thanks for the really excellent posting, Will.

I did business with several railroads that had BL locomotives, and I don't recall any of them having underframe problems or operating restrictions on the units. This was discussed pretty extensively in a long string about a year or two back. There is nothing at all in the EMD General Service Bulletin index from the time they were built through 1953 (when the GSB series was ended) about any programs to remedy underframe defects. There were some problems with draft gear but this was shared with other locomotives in the same time period, it was not particular to the BL.

It is my recollection that the difference in base price between the BL and the F3 was very slight, with the BL being just a little lower. However the difference in base price between the F7 and GP7 was considerably greater, with the GP7 being quite a bit less costly than the F7. If I can find them sometime I will add them to the pricing discussion.

 #187627  by Centurylover68
 
I have heard stories of the rear end coming off of MU equipped units. BL2s are really cool looking engines and when you consider the amount of them that have been preserved it is pretty amazing

 #187756  by mxdata
 
A fascinating story. Has anyone actually seen a picture of what came apart? You would expect that if General Motors Locomotives were falling apart as they were operating on the railroads somebody would have gotten a picture of it. Was it the pilot, the draft gear pocket, or the draft gear itself? There were some draft gear problems in the mid to late 1940s, but not just on the BL units.
 #188316  by slide rules
 
Hi all,

Very interesting stuff so far about one of our (my brother Will's and mine) favorite locomotives! Here's some information from the operating manual for BL2 locomotives which sheds some light on EMD's intentions for their creation.

First off, the manual itself is actually a completely standard contemporary F3 manual, with an added multi-page insert at the end. The reason for this is, as the insert states, that a "BL2 locomotive is essentially an F3 locomotive rearranged to be especially suitable for branch line service. With the exceptions listed below the F3 and BL2 locomotives are functionally the same."

(This eliminates any questions about the BL2's mechanical reliability or capability, and one has only to look at the information available about the F3's performance to qualify that. Performance clearly wasn't the problem, not from a mechanical standpoint anyway.)

Certainly the visibility was worse on the BL2 than "road switchers", and the unique and very different control stand arangement on the BL2's actually probably compounded the problem. Briefly, it places the throttle and in fact just about everything a bit farther away from the engineer than on F3's. I've read of engineers using pipes to extend the throttle handle length so as to make it more reachable when looking out the side window, or when turned around. Better visibility than an F3 for sure, but not as good as a "true" "road switcher".

But other mechanical differences in the BL2 show EMD's intent more clearly. They made mechanical, electrical, and control changes which depart from F3 "road freight locomotive" standard equipment, and in these changes lie the majority of the differences from the F3.

First, the throttle had no escapement mechanism, and could be opened as rapidly as desired. This was useful for switching service, and many switchers had like arrangement, especially if they had air throttles!!

Automatic transition was NOT standard on the BL2, but when provided it was WITHOUT the forestalling feature currently in use on the F3's. I would hazard to guess that the design engineers realized that it was unlikely that BL2's would regularly encounter conditions where the forestalling feature would be useful, and so simplified the design by omitting that. Also, the BL2 used a through cable type relay system for back transition, which would later become standard on road engines (F3).

A "load regulator control" (LRC) switch was provided on the control island which had two positions, namely ROAD and SWITCHING. In ROAD position, the locomotive's load regulating system behaved as a current, contemporary F3 using modified maximum field starting. With the switch in SWITCHING, a shunt was inserted bypassing the load regulator, providing more rapid starting of the locomotive. (This essentially ties excitation to throttle position, within certain limits. NOT throttle response, but not standard load regulator control either) This, as the manual states, is more desirable for switching service, and the same kind of thing could indeed be found on switchers. This is a very important difference from F3's, and was EMD's first use of such a system on a locomotive intended to be regularly capable of road service. This is also the genesis of the very similar load regulating/control system used on the locomotive which would successfully address the shortcomings of the BL2, namely the GP7.

There are still a few other minor differences, but those are the major ones. Clearly, we see that EMD felt that the mechanical changes they made were the major needs in a locomotive fit for branch line service. It should be noted that nearly all these mechanical features caried over to the GP7, or were improved for it, and that the GP7 is more BL2 than F7 in some ways. What the GP7 did too was fix the visibility problems of the BL2, which could not have been done in any carbody style unit.

-David A. Davis

 #188391  by mxdata
 
That's a great posting for your first one David, welcome to the forum.

Here are the pricing notes I mentioned earlier, sorry it took a while to find them. In 1948 the base price for the F3A was noted as $152,800 and the BL2 was shown as $151,200. In 1950 the base price for the F7A was noted as $161,000 and the GP7 was shown as $145,000. Keep in mind these figures usually don't include everything needed to make it a fully functional locomotive in compliance with the agreements, so there were usually optional items added that increased the final price. But it at least provides a comparison.

 #188790  by SSW9389
 
There is an operations based story in Trains Magazine from about 1977 written by a former Missouri Pacific Trainmaster. He relates how that the BL2s being used in Arkansas at the time were not popular with enginemen because they could not see the brakemen on the ground well and because of the peculiar positions the engineer had to assume to try and see his brakeman and still operate the BL2.

 #189344  by Engineer Spike
 
Not being able to see the brakeman is a present problem with the comfort cabs!