Tragic derailment of corridor train

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AEM7AC920
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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by AEM7AC920 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:20 pm

Wow now I'm curious as to if there were any false indications given by the signal system. I still am shocked that 2 experienced engineers and 1 trainee may have all been distracted possibly.
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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by FCM2829 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:44 pm

Speculation at this point, however...

"Look at the skid marks to the right of the cars.... It drives home for me the idea that a truck picked the switch. It was likely the rear of the 2nd car. The front of the 2nd car pushed the 1st car off the tracks, and the 1st car twisted & lifted the loco, even one foot could do it, off the trucks, and it flipped over once it was not resting on the trucks properly."

Unlikely. There is no way an LRC coach could lift or twist an F40 off of its trucks, unless it already was airborne off of a bridge.
More likely, the No. 1 track switch was in the closed position (i.e. not lined up for a diverging route), and at 67mph, this would be enough for the F40 jump the tracks and keep going on its diverging route (straight off the right of way and into some buildings). The train seems to have made it through the first switch on its diverging route (leaving track 2 diverging onto track 1), but failed to negotiate the second half of the interlocking.

What a horrible way to go, for everybody involved.

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by MBTA1016 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:12 pm

As been said previously bless the families of those who were lost.
Just out of curiosity(I dont want to bring up the families after this question) but what age is the youngest child of each of the engineers families?
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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by Silverliner II » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:20 am

Ken V wrote:The Canadian Transportation Safety Board held a press conference this morning. The indications from the event recorder (black box) shows the train was going 67 mph when it took the crossover with no signs of any attempt to slow down. While we may have a better idea of what happened, we still do not know why it happened and may not for a while, if ever.
And the crossover in question is a 15mph crossover....
AEM7AC920 wrote:Wow now I'm curious as to if there were any false indications given by the signal system. I still am shocked that 2 experienced engineers and 1 trainee may have all been distracted possibly.
A friend of mine in Ontario said that CTV News reports that initial tests show the signal system was working properly. The questions that investigators acknowledge they won't be able to answer are "Who was operating the train" and "did some type of distraction cause all three people in the cab to miss the distant and home signal indication?"

The signals at Aldershot would have given even more advance warning. With a 15mph crossover, the home signal would have likely been a "Slow To Clear", with the distant being a "Clear To Slow" (Slow Clear and Approach Slow for the U.S. folks)... and if it wasn't damaged, the locomotive camera would tell that story.
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Ken V
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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by Ken V » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:17 am

Silverliner II wrote:A friend of mine in Ontario said that CTV News reports that initial tests show the signal system was working properly.
Before we go too far with this, the TSB representative said this was just the initial test to determine if the signals were working and more in-depth testing would be needed to establish if the system was fully functional. There has also been no mention of a locomotive camera in any of the media so I am assuming there wasn't one.

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by scoostraw » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:35 am

FCM2829 wrote:More likely, the No. 1 track switch was in the closed position (i.e. not lined up for a diverging route), and at 67mph, this would be enough for the F40 jump the tracks and keep going on its diverging route (straight off the right of way and into some buildings). The train seems to have made it through the first switch on its diverging route (leaving track 2 diverging onto track 1), but failed to negotiate the second half of the interlocking.
Not necessarily. At that speed the switches could have been aligned properly for a crossover move, but the excessive speed could have caused the locomotive to literally careen off the rails.

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by scoostraw » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:38 am

AEM7AC920 wrote:I still am shocked that 2 experienced engineers and 1 trainee may have all been distracted possibly.
An argument could be made that 3 people in the cab is too many. All it takes is some topic of conversation (even work related) to take the attention off the task at hand. We'll never know if this is what happened, but it makes you wonder.

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by AEM7AC920 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:27 pm

The rule is 4 people allowed in the cab at a time but most railroads only allow one with a student engineer running. I don't know anything about VIA rail but I'm curious as to why they run with 2 engineers off the bat.
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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by CHTT1 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:24 pm

The locomotive crew on VIA trains perform the duties of the operating crew, i.e. both conductor and engineer. Personnel in the passenger cars perform passenger care duties and have no operating duties, except for opening doors.

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by Silverliner II » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:44 am

Ken V wrote:
Silverliner II wrote:A friend of mine in Ontario said that CTV News reports that initial tests show the signal system was working properly.
Before we go too far with this, the TSB representative said this was just the initial test to determine if the signals were working and more in-depth testing would be needed to establish if the system was fully functional. There has also been no mention of a locomotive camera in any of the media so I am assuming there wasn't one.
I did say also that it was initial tests; I wasn't implying that was the final conclusion. Also, the rebuilt locomotives were equipped with cameras; the media just may not have mentioned that.
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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by timberley » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:29 pm

Silverliner II wrote: Also, the rebuilt locomotives were equipped with cameras; the media just may not have mentioned that.
This one may not have been. According to VIA's rebuild program, the F40s will be receiving a "digital camera video recorder for improved reliability and safety". However, this was not installed in the earlier rebuilds (I believe it is to be retroactively installed). So 6444 may not have had one of the cameras. I have it in mind that it did not...
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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by Silverliner II » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:36 pm

timberley wrote:
Silverliner II wrote: Also, the rebuilt locomotives were equipped with cameras; the media just may not have mentioned that.
This one may not have been. According to VIA's rebuild program, the F40s will be receiving a "digital camera video recorder for improved reliability and safety". However, this was not installed in the earlier rebuilds (I believe it is to be retroactively installed). So 6444 may not have had one of the cameras. I have it in mind that it did not...
Oh boy....
"*BEEEEEP!!!* Three-Three! Three! No Alarms!"
(announcement from CN hotbox/dragging equipment detector, Milepost 33, track #3, Oakville Subdivision)

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by scoostraw » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:58 pm

The camera probably wouldn't have added much to what we already know. A voice recorder on the other hand would have been really helpful I think.

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by justalurker66 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:08 pm

scoostraw wrote:The camera probably wouldn't have added much to what we already know. A voice recorder on the other hand would have been really helpful I think.
The two key facts that should have been caught on camera are the exact signal indications visible to the crew and the positioning of the switches. If there was some failure that was undetected by the trackside equipment it should be visible on the video.

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Re: Tragic derailment of corridor train

Post by 25Hz » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:22 am

67 over a 15 mph switch, all bets are off there. I think there may still have been a switch problem. The speed also explains the damage to the locomotive, which is quite extensive.
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