VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locations

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dowlingm
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by dowlingm » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:06 pm

The terrain on the CP Havelock Sub-Smith Falls route wouldn’t be anyone’s first choice for a high speed route - or even the 90ish mph services VIA runs now.

Mark0f0
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by Mark0f0 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:38 pm

mdvle wrote: As for the freight issue, I was more replying to the idea that CN, CP, or even some 3rd party, might view the new line as attractive for moving stuff Toronto <-> Montreal and not some local freights. In which case the freight train would need to be fast enough to not get in the way of the passenger trains (interesting thought, if the new line could be faster than a truck on the 401 would parcel services be interested in an RDC type of unit to move smaller amounts of freight - I suspect the costs wouldn't work but who knows).
Perhaps a more plausible plan is for VIA to build the Toronto-Montreal line, and run it for CN/CP's use. Freeing up capacity to implement their actual plans on the existing corridor. Essentially an 'in-kind' infrastructure swap that could potentially cover VIA's entire operations coast to coast if done right.

Right now VIA essentially gets laughed at when they go to negotiate with CN (and CP) because they've contributed nearly no infrastructure to the equation.

mtuandrew
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by mtuandrew » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:09 am

There’s a point, Mark0of0 - how about VIA rebuilds this CP line in exchange for a large number of slots on CP’s current line. That lets VIA pull most trains off CN, except for whatever few trains travel between Belleville and Montreal.

It’s thinking out of the box, but might be worth a look.

electricron
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by electricron » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:16 am

Where is VIA going to find the money to make this plan happen? It's difficult enough for us "foamers" to see how this will help VIA, imagine how much harder it will be for MPs to grasp it and then subsequently fund it? :(

mtuandrew
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by mtuandrew » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:14 pm

electricron wrote:Where is VIA going to find the money to make this plan happen? It's difficult enough for us "foamers" to see how this will help VIA, imagine how much harder it will be for MPs to grasp it and then subsequently fund it? :(
Truth.

I often forget that the only reasons Amtrak has the NEC are because a) Penn Central went bankrupt b) Conrail also included the parallel Reading, CNJ, and LV route and c) in order to give Conrail a mostly-monopoly and to allow for decent transit in the region, Congress split off the NEC explicitly for passenger use. Had CN and CP both gone bankrupt in the 1970s, Canada may have decided similarly to dedicate one for passenger rail, but now both routes are heavily used by freight.

mdvle
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by mdvle » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:25 pm

electricron wrote:Where is VIA going to find the money to make this plan happen? It's difficult enough for us "foamers" to see how this will help VIA, imagine how much harder it will be for MPs to grasp it and then subsequently fund it? :(
The "plan" is that it will be built by the private sector and VIA will lease / pay usage fees to run trains on it, those fees being enough to allow the private company to make a profit.

dowlingm
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by dowlingm » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:14 am

While there was not a Conrail analogue, CN was privatized in 1995 and while the prime mainline was too valuable to hand to VIA, it’s arguable that that transfer of control could have come with more aggressive protections for VIA scheduling.

mdvle
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by mdvle » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:01 am

Yesterday's federal budget allocated a total of $8 million to study VIA's proposal between now and 2022.

bdawe
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by bdawe » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:36 am

electricron wrote:Where is VIA going to find the money to make this plan happen? It's difficult enough for us "foamers" to see how this will help VIA, imagine how much harder it will be for MPs to grasp it and then subsequently fund it? :(
I don't think the 'foamers' get this because of their love of ol-time railroading more than their superior understanding of the issue
B. Dawe's map of routes and urban populations https://brendandawe.carto.com/viz/80b9d ... /embed_map" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; NOW updated with 2016 Canadian Populations

electricron
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by electricron » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:07 am

mdvle wrote:Yesterday's federal budget allocated a total of $8 million to study VIA's proposal between now and 2022.
$8 million to study the proposal for another 3 years is a far cry from funding it and getting it done now! The time for study should have been over when VIA announced their plans after they had studied it. It's time to start planning the project so they can start implementing it, so this new service can start by 2022.
Along with the new route, VIA also need new trains. They're going to need more than $8 million to purchase new trains, but I suspect the government will want to start a study on that too.

mdvle
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by mdvle » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:25 am

electricron wrote: $8 million to study the proposal for another 3 years is a far cry from funding it and getting it done now! The time for study should have been over when VIA announced their plans after they had studied it. It's time to start planning the project so they can start implementing it, so this new service can start by 2022.
But the whole point is VIA's plan doesn't require the government to fund it (though the issue is likely that the government would likely need to guarantee it). VIA wants the private sector to build it with VIA paying to use it.
electricron wrote:Along with the new route, VIA also need new trains. They're going to need more than $8 million to purchase new trains, but I suspect the government will want to start a study on that too.

See the other thread, the budget included buying new trains now.

mtuandrew
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by mtuandrew » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:02 pm

Meanwhile, the 401’s median is just sitting there :wink: I’d half-hoped for BBD to throw out an unsolicited DBOM bid for Toronto-Montreal, just so we would have numbers to compare.

bretton88
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Re: VIA's proposed new corridor bypasses most existing locat

Post by bretton88 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:57 pm

5 billion over 10 years to complete that vision 2025 plan. That's pennies, even for Canada. Why do Via's proposals all seem a lot cheaper than Amtrak's?

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