Union Pacific UP Big Boy 4014 Steam

[westr]

I really doubt it. It's not just the money, but the fact that if you restore it, you need a place to run it. If you restore a B29, you can fly it pretty much anywhere, but there aren't a lot of lines that could handle a Big Boy and that would be open to the operation of one today. Even back in the day, UP only used them between Ogden and Cheyenne, whereas they used Challengers on all their main lines. No musuem or preservation group would expend the effort to restore to operation a locomotive that would be essentially limited to running on mainlines when there are plenty of smaller, more versatile locomotives out there. It would take the direct support of Union Pacific, but since UP already has the Challenger, which can be used across the system and looks very similar to the Big Boy to the point that the general public probably couldn't tell them apart, there's no incentive for them to restore one.

[trainwayne1]

Westr.....I don't doubt what you say at all, but I'm wondering if the way track is built and maintained today for all the higher weights of modern cars and locos, wouldn't there be other lines that a Big Boy could run, especially on a special occasion frequency?

[abaduck]

Restore one? When the Brits found a particular type of steam loco they liked was extinct, they got together and *built* a new one. From scratch.

http://www.a1steam.com/

Mike

[slchub]

When you say "run", do you mean from a PR point of view, or actual over-the-road operations pulling freight?

I would say you would see one from the "friendly" Were The Big Old Rolling Railroad PR standpoint, but with the costs vs. velocity, maintenance & TE&Y crews to operate, this is one company who will bend over backwards to ensure that 11,000' manifests DPU'ed with one crew remain intact. We (Amtrak #5 & 6) got shoehorned 3 times in one night between Elko and Salt Lake City with no-fitter manifest trains DPU'ed.

[SemperFidelis]

I don't think it is a matter of track standards being robust enough to allow Big Boy operations, but rather one of curvature and clearances being wide enough. I recall reading about the trip the unit located at Steamtown NP in Scranton, PA took from Bellow's Falls, VT when the former operator decided to relocate. Rails on curves were greased to allow passage and parts of the locomotive were damaged while passing through a tunnel. Of course, that's here in the east. The rail system here is much older, is located in more densely populated areas, and is built in challenging terrain with limited space for alternatives.

I don't see it happening...and that's a shame because it would be incredible.

[John_Perkowski]

IIRC Steve Lee made a comment at the time 3985 was returned to service that no Big Boy would be returned to service. The biggest reasons were engineering in nature: Most of the turntables used to turn a 4000 class are gone, and many of the remaining wyes have tighter radii than they did in the steam era.

UP 4004 gave up its stoker augur to the initial rebuilding of 3985. Lord knows what happened to that after she was converted to oil in 1990.

[joeburgard540]

I know this answer is a long time in coming...but here you go.

The two plumes of steam coming from near the steam turret casing are the exhausts from the Pyle-National turbo-generator and the cold water centrifugal pump (mounted underneath the fireman's side of the cab). The centrifugal pump (Elesco type TP) pumped water from the tender to the exhaust steam injector (located underneath the running boards on the fireman's side of the smokebox).

Cheers
Joe

[joeburgard540]

Does anyone know for certain what the maximum cut-off was for the Big Boys in both forward and reverse (if the figures are different)? I'd assume it would be about the same as Challenger #3985 since they both use the 12" ALCO Type "M" power reverse and had very similiar designs.

I just revisited #4018 in Dallas, but the cab is locked so I couldn't see the reverse quadrant. I asked one of the employees, but he didn't have the keys.

Are any of the reverse quadrants clearly visible on any of the Big Boys that are on display?

Thanks,
Joe

[Typewriters]

Cutoff on the UP 4000's was 81% maximum, forward - haven't found a figure for reverse yet.

Comparable figures between the 4000's and the 3950-3969 include lap, lead and overall valve travel. RME lists the 4000's as having been equipped with ALCO Special Type H reverse, and the 3950's with Type H.

-Will Davis

[joeburgard540]

Thanks Will, nice to know my figures correspond. Just curious as to what source you got that from? Also what is RME?

I drew some Zeuner diagrams for full gear (hand drawn and CAD) based off the info on UP drawing 585 CA 30809, the valve diagram:
Valve Diameter - 12"
Valve Travel - 7"
Steam Lap - 1.375"
Lead - 0.25"
Exhaust Clearance - 0.125"

Results:
Lead Angle - 27.7 degrees
Cutoff - 81.6%
Release - 93.4%
Compression - 4.86%
Admission - 0.15%

As a side note, UP drawing 683 CA 31236 dated 5 August 1944 gives the Power Reverse Gear as the 12" ALCO Type "M". This is for locos 4-8-8-4 #4000-4024 and 4-6-6-4 #3930-3999.

Cheers - Joe

[Typewriters]

That's all from my brother's library, specifically the Gregg reprints of specific articles from RME or Railway Mechanical Engineer, which for those unfamiliar was the real biblical trade paper as far as new steam locomotive construction was concerned. I don't know why your drawings list "Type M" and RME states "Special Type H" unless they're one and the same with two different (ie earlier and later) designations.

-Will Davis

[joeburgard540]

My bad...I misread your question and to clarify. The two steam plumes on the turret (just ahead of the cab) are the exhuast for the cold water pump and the Nalco Automatic Blowdown. The third plume of steam nearly always seen is from the Pyle National turbo-generator (ahead and on the left or fireman's side of the turret).

Joe

[Gilbert B Norman]

Well, there's always this "oh so fifties" company propaganda film in which to see Big Boys run again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7Jac3h ... re=related

[Desertdweller]

I doubt if we see one of there run again, for the reasons Steve Lee gave.

I live on the UP main line between North Platte and Cheyenne, and, believe me, the track is more than up to it. How do you suppose the engines got to Cheyenne in the first place?

We have the 3985 and the 844 now, plus a few more inactive on the property. They will have to do.

But if any railroad could put the Big Boy back in steam, it would obviously be the UP. They have the capability to do this, and have the best steam program of any Class One.

Les

[v8interceptor]

Back in the late 90's a would be film producer proposed restoring Big Boy 4018 to full operating condition for the filming of an action movie to be entitled "Big Boy". This effort got as far as making an inspection of the locomotive which included moving it on the tracks it was stored on to check the running gear..
Sadly, it turned out the production company "High Ball Productions" didn't have anywhere near the funding to do the restoration (IIRC, there was speculation that it was a scam operation) and the project died a quiet death..

http://www.trainweb.org/jlsrr/bigboy/40 ... 204018.htm