ALCo PAs

[The tram man]

How many PAs did UP have? I have only found one but im pretty sure they had more.

[westr]

Union Pacific had a total of 8 PA-1s and 6 PB-1s, delivered in 2 batches. PA-1s 994A-997A and PB-1s 998B-999B were delivered in 1947. They were soon renumbered 600-603 & 600B & 602B. The other 4 PA-1s and 4 PB-1s were delivered in 1949, numbered 604-607 & 604B-607B. They were used in passenger service until the late 1950s when they were regeared for freight service. They were retired in 1964-1965 and scrapped, except 607, which had become the cab unit for UP's experimental coal turbine #80 and was stored until 1968 when it was scrapped.

[The tram man]

Ok. Thanks for the info. Its too bad UP had to give up passenger service... But hey, they can always start again

[John_Perkowski]

1) Money talks. In the case of passenger service, the money talking was the red ink of losses.

2) UP had pretty well settled on EMD's early on. F-M and ALCO were also-rans, in spite of the fact that ALCO was UP's go-to steam builder.

[Leo_Ames]

Just in case you were under the impression Train Man that they were bumped down to freight work and then retired because of Union Pacific wanting to get out of the passenger business, the reality is that they retired their PA's from passenger service at a time when they still believed in their premier passenger trains.

They simply didn't have the reliability UP desired for their City trains and were replaced with brand new state of the art power at a time when they were revamping their passenger power, which included retiring their small fleet of E7's. Their fleet of FA's were also part of their elimination of older less reliable power that had outlived their usefulness when the PA's disappeared after their short freight careers.

Union Pacific standardized on E8's and E9's for passenger service, and were still purchasing brand new E9's after the PA's had already been cascaded to freight service, where they lived out their final few months in between periods of storage.

[ljeppson]

Regarding the PA which became part of the coal turbine experiment, one of the tapes on the subject said that the control unit (the PA) contributed an additional 2,000 HP. Was the ALCO engine an active participant then? Also, I was led to believe that the the middle axles on the PA were powered for the experiment, A1A-A1A going to C-C. Do I understand this correctly?

[westr]

Regarding the PA which became part of the coal turbine experiment, one of the tapes on the subject said that the control unit (the PA) contributed an additional 2,000 HP. Was the ALCO engine an active participant then? Also, I was led to believe that the the middle axles on the PA were powered for the experiment, A1A-A1A going to C-C. Do I understand this correctly?

I believe that is correct. According to Diesels of the Union Pacific Volume 2 by Don Strack, the turbine produced 5000hp and the cab unit provided 2000hp and was on C-C trucks. They appear to be the original trucks, so apparently traction motors were added to the center axles, though I didn't know that could be done with those trucks. I would imagine that the PA retained its Alco engine to produce the 2000hp, as that was its original rating.

[Leo_Ames]

Don Strack on his website mentions that the "modifications to the Alco passenger unit included removal of the steam generator and main air reservoirs from the rear interior of the unit, and installation of an additional 3,852-gallon diesel fuel tank. The air reservoirs were re-installed along the roof."

Seems like turning a A1A trucked passenger unit into a C-C trucked locomotive would be noteworthy enough to be mentioned in that summary of some of the changes made to this unit. But his online roster clearly also states that it had C-C trucks.

[ljeppson]

In the videos of the coal turbine experiment the PA's trucks look like original issue. If this is the case then it must have been possible to mount a third motor on the central axel of the original PA trucks. I see Don Strack every now and then here in SLC. I'll ask him.

[donstrack]

The UP PA number 607 that was part of the coal turbine was *not* converted from A1A-A-1A to C-C. This is an urban legend among railfans.

Don Strack

[ljeppson]

Well, that settles it. But as an urban legend it was created by Pentrex (or whomever did UP's Mighty Turbines).

[Leo_Ames]

The UP PA number 607 that was part of the coal turbine was *not* converted from A1A-A-1A to C-C. This is an urban legend among railfans.

Don Strack

Thanks for verifying that it wasn't converted.

Also, in case you didn't notice me mention it, your roster does incorrectly identify the PA control unit in the coal turbine set as having a C-C wheel arrangement.

http://utahrails.net/all-time/all-time- ... al-turbine

[donstrack]

Also, in case you didn't notice me mention it, your roster does incorrectly identify the PA control unit in the coal turbine set as having a C-C wheel arrangement.

http://utahrails.net/all-time/all-time- ... al-turbine

Not anymore <grin>. What's most embarassing is that the C-C is also in the UP 1934-1982 Volume 1 book that way. At least four pairs of eyes proofread the manuscript, but no one caught the mistake. But I can fix the web page.

Don Strack