Freight Trains Crash in South Carolina

[Robert Paniagua]

My condolences go out to the family of the engineer and his crews for the train Wreck.

Also, media says it'll be nearly a month before residents can return to their homes.

[LI Loco]

Here's another idea to improve switch safety:

Go back to the old practice of switchstand lanterns that indicated "green" if the track was lined straight and "amber" if it were lined up for the siding or spur. Assuming the engineer had clear visibility, i.e. a straight track, he should have known that an amber signal at that location indicated trouble and that he should hit the brakes.

[CSX Conductor]

This idea/suggestion has already been brought up and discussed earlier in this thread, am I wrong?

[metman499]

One thing would easily exhonerate the local crew: the passing of another train before the one involved in the wreck. That would make it an open and shut case for tampering.

[CSX Conductor]

I tend to agree, unless of course the local crew was still working.

Was the local crew still working? I thought I heard on a news report that they had outlawed and were not there at the time of the accident.

[thebigc]

Without trying to upset somebody with these remarks, I will offer an idea
as to what I think should be done to hopefully prevent another unfortunate
accident like this one.
In unsignaled territory, all hand thrown switches that are not protected by
signals will be approached at a speed which will permit stopping the
movement short of the switch if it is not properly lined.
Will it hit the railroads hard? Yes, of course but it could save lives.
Noel Weaver

On New Jersey Transit where I work, when operating against the current of traffic with a Form D we must approach all facing point switches prepared to stop. Not a new concept as Amtrak had this rule in their old BOR but still effective. We had it, too and after NORAC was implemented it was dropped for a while. But we still approached prepared to stop. I guess the carriers got smart and put the rule back. It's your only real protection against a mis-lined switch in dark territory.

Knowing NS' penchant for discipline, I really feel for whoever takes the hit for this one.

[AmtrakFan]

Why don't they eletroincly lock the Swithces?

John

[O-6-O]

Since a couple of posters here have it that a crewmen didn't line the
switch normal, if thats the case imagine the poor guy having to carry that
thought into eternity. Since this has NOT been determined the possiblity that
a properly thrown switch was tampered with remains an open question.
Could not a disgruntled ex employee, mill worker or vandal looking for
"kicks" been responseable? Point to ponder.

If the above constitutes flaming,and you are burning!!
....go jump in the water

STEAM ON
/--OOO-;-oo--oo-

[crazy_nip]

Can we imagine if this particular line had an Amtrak train running on it and the Amtrak train was involved in this?

I dont know how many passenger trains run in completely dark territory

IE: TWC or DTC territory without even ABS signals

I venture to guess not many, and for reasons like this

but one thing is certain, santa fe sucks has a point about the accident being avoidable by the crew doing their job and alligning the switch, assuming it wasnt a frame-job type of sabotage, which I think looks pretty unlikely

I dont know if he is being a smart ass or not about it or not

[efin98]

Since a couple of posters here have it that a crewmen didn't line the
switch normal, if thats the case imagine the poor guy having to carry that
thought into eternity. Since this has NOT been determined the possiblity that
a properly thrown switch was tampered with remains an open question.
Could not a disgruntled ex employee, mill worker or vandal looking for
"kicks" been responseable? Point to ponder.

That's still plausible if you overlook all information coming out in the last two days all stating that the investigation is focusing directly on the crew. Any other theory is all but thrown out the window. When the accident scene is cleared and the switch can be investigated fully, the truth will come out. Until then, the crew members are still the prime suspects.

[Noel Weaver]

Can we imagine if this particular line had an Amtrak train running on it and the Amtrak train was involved in this?

I dont know how many passenger trains run in completely dark territory

IE: TWC or DTC territory without even ABS signals

I venture to guess not many, and for reasons like this

but one thing is certain, santa fe sucks has a point about the accident being avoidable by the crew doing their job and alligning the switch, assuming it wasnt a frame-job type of sabotage, which I think looks pretty unlikely

I dont know if he is being a smart ass or not about it or not

There are two Amtrak trains that I am sure run over some dark territory
and that is the two trains that run to Vermont. The Vermonter runs over
dark territory between Palmer and Brattleboro and also between White
River Junction and St. Albans. The Rutland train also runs over dark
territory over the line between Whitehall and Rutland.
Metro-North commuter trains also run over dark territory over both the
Danbury and Waterbury Branches.
I am not sure whether the Star route between Selma, NC and Raleigh, NC
is still dark territory or not. I know the line west of Raleigh to Greensboro
has been signaled but I am not sure about Selma - Raleigh. I also wonder
about portions of the CSX route between Tallahassee and New Orleans?
Noel Weaver

[Noel Weaver]

Without trying to upset somebody with these remarks, I will offer an idea
as to what I think should be done to hopefully prevent another unfortunate
accident like this one.
In unsignaled territory, all hand thrown switches that are not protected by
signals will be approached at a speed which will permit stopping the
movement short of the switch if it is not properly lined.
Will it hit the railroads hard? Yes, of course but it could save lives.
Noel Weaver

On New Jersey Transit where I work, when operating against the current of traffic with a Form D we must approach all facing point switches prepared to stop. Not a new concept as Amtrak had this rule in their old BOR but still effective. We had it, too and after NORAC was implemented it was dropped for a while. But we still approached prepared to stop. I guess the carriers got smart and put the rule back. It's your only real protection against a mis-lined switch in dark territory.

Knowing NS' penchant for discipline, I really feel for whoever takes the hit for this one.

Years ago, the New Haven Railroad also had a rule that we had to reduce
to 30 MPH while running against the current of traffic over facing point
switches.
I also recall under Penn Central, the New England Division under supt.
E. C. Cross had a rule that on secondary tracks, all facing point switches
not interlocked had to be approached at restricted speed. Some parts of
this division were in areas of a high rate of vandalism and other problems.
Does NJT have any unsignaled trackage left?
Noel Weaver

[Noel Weaver]

Since a couple of posters here have it that a crewmen didn't line the
switch normal, if thats the case imagine the poor guy having to carry that
thought into eternity. Since this has NOT been determined the possiblity that
a properly thrown switch was tampered with remains an open question.
Could not a disgruntled ex employee, mill worker or vandal looking for
"kicks" been responseable? Point to ponder.

If the above constitutes flaming,and you are burning!!
....go jump in the water

STEAM ON
/--OOO-;-oo--oo-

Very good point, I have to wonder if the NS has collected the switch key(s) of every single employee who has left their service, especially ones
who have been fired over the years.
Noel Weaver

[thebigc]

Does NJT have any unsignaled trackage left?
Noel Weaver

Princeton branch. DCS rules in effect for extras and scheduled trains run with TT authority. It's a captive line, 2.7 miles.

[Schuylkill Valley]

Ok enough is enough from here on in this thread will be locked!

Leonard