Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

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scottychaos
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by scottychaos »

GulfRail wrote:and I'm also surprised that NS has decided to do heritage units for the NYC and NH, which are usually considered CSX Predecessors, not Norfolk Southern ones.
Agreed..I also usually associate NYC with CSX, not NS..although..the New York Central mainline between New York City/Boston west to Chicago was one intact mainline, belonging to only one railroad, from the NYC to PC to Conrail days..but in the 1999 Conrail split, the NYC mainline was cut in half! CSX runs the NYC acoss NY state and into Ohio, but only as far as Cleveland..NS got the rest of the NYC mainline from Cleveland to Chicago..
So really, NYC heritage "belongs" to both CSX and NS..

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njmidland
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by njmidland »

Remember that Trains released this info prematurely. While I don't know which ones, I do know that requests have gone out for a couple of other paint schemes that make more sense than NH and NYC. I am pretty well convinced that the final list in not complete.
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MEC407
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by MEC407 »

Remember when the Conrail breakup first happened and the rolling stock that went to NS received PRR reporting marks? Is it my imagination, or did the stuff that went to CSX receive NYC reporting marks?
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charlie6017
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by charlie6017 »

You are correct, MEC.......CSX destined locomotives and cars had the NYC reporting marks.

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Otto Vondrak
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by Otto Vondrak »

blockline4180 wrote:
njmidland wrote:Otto,
The people we dealt with were from the logical departments and fairly well up the maintenance chain. We went public because it appeared the Trains news story was an NS release but as you say NS has yet to release the story so I think we should hold back on further details until NS goes public. My guess is they won't until one or more of the units are painted.
Thanks, much appreciated Tim!
Tim, I understand the situation ELDCPS is in.

Steve, I think it's odd for you to make a claim that you are close to people in NS upper executive management and then balk when I ask for details. I also think it's odd that if these upper-echelon folks told you something in confidence that you would share it here without their permission.

That is all. Nothing personal.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this, since there's been so much rumor and little fact to grab onto, let alone an official announcement from NS.

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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

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Tadman
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by Tadman »

It's not odd at all for someone to be hesitant to name names in upper management. Sometimes the manager in question does not want to be named but doesn't mind sharing the info.

There may be other such as insurance, trademarks, or financing. If you follow the news, you'll notice that the politicians and pentagon officials leak stuff to journalists all the time under the proviso that it's not a named source. This is nothing new.

I personally have a few friends in Class I management and shortline management. Sometimes they'll let me in a secret provided I don't tell others where I got my info. I'm not going to break that trust.
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by Tadman »

On the topic of which roads are featured:

I'm a bit surprised NYC, NH, RDG, and CNJ are in. Most of the original NYC (IE, not MC, Big 4, LSMS, or PLE) is CSX. Most NH is Amtrak/MN. And B&O controlled RDG, which controlled CNJ. B&O/RDG/CNJ was the PRR/NEC's rival from WAS-Hoboken.

That said, PRR makes sense, as they controlled N&W for years. EL also make sense, as N&W owned EL for a decade under the Dereco holding company umbrella.

What's left out? Illinois Terminal, for one.
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njmidland
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by njmidland »

The word I have from my contact is that the final list is still in flux. As of yesterday it looks like it will be Erie and DL&W but not EL. I think NS will themselves go public by the end of this week or the beginning of next.
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scottychaos
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by scottychaos »

Tadman wrote:On the topic of which roads are featured:

I'm a bit surprised NYC, NH, RDG, and CNJ are in. Most of the original NYC (IE, not MC, Big 4, LSMS, or PLE) is CSX.
No its not..the New York Central mainline between NY City and Chicago is now about 60% CSX and 40% NS..
NS is running the NYC mainline from Cleveland to Chicago..from a previous post in this thread:
scottychaos wrote:
GulfRail wrote:and I'm also surprised that NS has decided to do heritage units for the NYC and NH, which are usually considered CSX Predecessors, not Norfolk Southern ones.
Agreed..I also usually associate NYC with CSX, not NS..although..the New York Central mainline between New York City/Boston west to Chicago was one intact mainline, belonging to only one railroad, from the NYC to PC to Conrail days..but in the 1999 Conrail split, the NYC mainline was cut in half! CSX runs the NYC acoss NY state and into Ohio, but only as far as Cleveland..NS got the rest of the NYC mainline from Cleveland to Chicago..
So really, NYC heritage "belongs" to both CSX and NS..

Scot
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poppyl
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by poppyl »

With apologies to Otto, it is being reported on another forum that the LV unit will be liveried in Cornell Red. If so, IMO, that is a much better representation of the LV legacy than the late stage "black and white" scheme.

In terms of the roads represented and following up on Scot's point, it seems to me that the drivers here are the routes of the Fallen Flags as they relate to today's NS route system rather than some defintive corporate ancestry that branches down to today"s NS.

And I like the idea of Erie and DL&W rather than Erie and EL from the livery variety perspective, although I don't see as much of the DL&W route system under NS today as seems to the case with the other Fallen Flags.

But I'm not complaining.

Poppyl

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Otto Vondrak
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by Otto Vondrak »

Tadman wrote:It's not odd at all for someone to be hesitant to name names in upper management. Sometimes the manager in question does not want to be named but doesn't mind sharing the info.
Saying "I'd rather not reveal my sources" is perfectly legitimate. It's just nice to know where the flow of information comes from.
If you follow the news, you'll notice that the politicians and pentagon officials leak stuff to journalists all the time under the proviso that it's not a named source. This is nothing new.
We're not talking about Pentagon-level stuff here... Just trains. :-)
I personally have a few friends in Class I management and shortline management...
NAMES! I demand names, addresses, personal cell phone numbers, c'mon, c'mon, SPILL IT! :-)

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Tadman
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by Tadman »

With regard to the pentagon-level thoughts - NS has a market cap of $23 billion. While our defense budget is $683b according to wiki, you're still talking a pretty big deal if something goes wrong at NS like a chemical spill or EPA lawsuit. That $23b represents mostly investments by pension funds and insurance companies, which need the security of low-risk investments like railroads and ship lines.


As for Scott's comments on NYC - Yes, NS operates 60% of the Chi-NY main, but I qualified my comments to only cover the core original NYC, not that of the Lake Shore and Michigan Southern, Michigan Central, Big 4, or P&LE. That's more like Buffalo-Alb-NYG. Essentially, CSX got NYC&HRRR and B&A; NS got Big 4, MC, and LSMS.
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

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MEC407
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Re: Norfolk Southern Heritage Units.

Post by MEC407 »

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