First dome ever in HSBG?

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jhdeasy
Posts: 2099
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Mount Vernon, Virginia, USA

Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by jhdeasy » Wed May 18, 2011 8:16 pm

MrBoh:

Jack Heard, owner of business car GEORGIA 300, provided the following information from the operating plan for the AAPRCO 2002 convention special train, western section:

Sunday 10/27/2002
Dp. Riverside 12:15 am
Light Engines w. Amtrak Engineer, CSX Pilot operate to B & O Museum
Dp. B & O Museum 4:00 am
*Pull AAPRCO special to Mt. Clare "A" Yard and run around train.
Ar. Bayview at 5:30 am.
*CSX to hand over AAPRCO special to NS.
Dp. Bayview at 6:00 am.
NS Crew
Ar. Perryville 6:30 am
*Stop on Wye
Ar. CP Shocks 8:40 am
Ar. Paxton 9:15 am
Ar. Harrisburg 9:20 am

The bottom line is I don't know the exact route they took between the B&O Museum and Bayview.

Ridgefielder
Posts: 2740
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Harlem Division MP 15

Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by Ridgefielder » Wed May 18, 2011 9:43 pm

Since the Budd Company plant was in Philadelphia, isn't it possible that dome cars may have gone through Harrisburg Union Station at some point "back in the day" on their way to delivery to Western roads?

MrBoh
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:08 pm
Location: MD

Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by MrBoh » Thu May 19, 2011 6:48 am

jhdeasy wrote:MrBoh:

Jack Heard, owner of business car GEORGIA 300, provided the following information from the operating plan for the AAPRCO 2002 convention special train, western section:

Sunday 10/27/2002
Dp. Riverside 12:15 am
Light Engines w. Amtrak Engineer, CSX Pilot operate to B & O Museum
Dp. B & O Museum 4:00 am
*Pull AAPRCO special to Mt. Clare "A" Yard and run around train.
Ar. Bayview at 5:30 am.
*CSX to hand over AAPRCO special to NS.
Dp. Bayview at 6:00 am.
NS Crew
Ar. Perryville 6:30 am
*Stop on Wye
Ar. CP Shocks 8:40 am
Ar. Paxton 9:15 am
Ar. Harrisburg 9:20 am

The bottom line is I don't know the exact route they took between the B&O Museum and Bayview.
Thanks for the info, very interesting. I lived for a few years (20006-2010) literally a stones throw (I could stand on my front stoop and throw a stone into the yard) from Riverside yard so i have a pretty good idea about the area. I do think the only way that could have been done is through the Howard Street tunnel. I have some maps of the area i will check out.

Thanks again!

JimBoylan
Posts: 3334
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:33 pm

Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by JimBoylan » Thu May 19, 2011 8:20 am

Since the Budd co. plant was in Philadelphia, but served by the Reading Co., the new dome cars for Western roads may have gone through the Harrisburg Reading Co. station, about next door to the Union station used by the Northern Central, Cumberland Valley, and other PRR roads.

The tracks in Pratt St. East of the B&O Museum that President elect Lincoln used were gone long before 2002. Were car floats across the harbor used to avoid Howard St. Tunnel, or was that a different century?

jhdeasy
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Mount Vernon, Virginia, USA

Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by jhdeasy » Fri May 20, 2011 8:53 am

MrBoh:

Thanks to a passenger who rode the western section of the AAPRCO 2002 convention special train, I now have the exact routing the special train took between the B&O Museum and Amtrak's NEC. The following is from the spreadsheet he sent to me:

BO Museum (CSXT Mt. Claire Sub-Div)
Mt. Claire yard
Washington Blvd
Carroll (CSXT Capital Sub-Div)
Bailey
HB Tower (CSXT Philadelphia Sub-Div)
Mt. Royal
North Avenue
Huntingdon Ave
Clifton Park
Bay View (CSXT Sparrows Point Sub-Div)
Becks (NS)
Bay View Yard NS
Bay (Amtrak Washington Div)

I'm not that familiar with CSX in the Baltimore area, but it does appear that the special train passed through the Howard Street tunnel under downtown Baltimore.

MrBoh
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:08 pm
Location: MD

Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by MrBoh » Fri May 20, 2011 1:55 pm

They certainly did pass through the Howard St. Tunnel, and then use the interchange I described earlier. Thanks for tracking that information down, its certainly very interesting that the connection was indeed used, I knew it was a theoretical connection but didn't know if it had been utilized for anything.

jp1822
Posts: 3815
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:03 pm
Location: New York, NY

Pittsburgh to Harrisburg and onto Philly

Post by jp1822 » Sat May 21, 2011 5:09 pm

MARC bi-level commuter cars can fit through the Baltimore tunnels, but not the Hudson River tunnes to NYP, otherwise, NJT would likely have jumped at the design of the MARC commuter coaches. Likewise, it has been reported that the LIRR bi-level cars can make it through the East River tunnels in NYC, but not the nearby Hudson River tunnels. Guess the Pennsy should have dug out the bottoms of the tunnels a little bit more when they switched from third rail operation to catenary operation.

I've seen Superliners in Harrisburg on a few occasions. They are often brought in for training or other purposes, and can travel down the Port Road to come up to the Wilmington Shops as necessary. This is why I have often suggested that a Superliner sleeper, coach (two if possible) and Sightseer Lounge car be split/joined to/from the Capitol Limited at Pittsburgh and run out to Harrisburg (i.e. similiar in some ways to the Empire Builder operation, but using a Sightseer Lounge to go to WAS and HBG). This woud be a companion train to the Pennsylvanian - one operting west of Pittsburgh for morning operation and one for mid-afternoon operation. Make the switch at Harrisburg (cross-platform) rather than Pittsburgh, especially with increased Keystone service now running to Harrisburg and only one lone train operating west of Harrisburg. This small Superiner stub train could even be timed to make a same-day turn at Harrisburg if Amtrak wanted to.

Amtrak toyed with the thought of converting the Broadway Limited into a Superliner train (terminating in Philly though) upon the delivery of Superliner II cars. But such was not to be! I think less modifications would have to be made than one would think, especially if track 1 at Philadelphia 30th Street Station is a low level platform, as reported in a thread above.

NellieBly
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:14 am
Location: NEC

Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by NellieBly » Tue May 24, 2011 9:13 am

Domes and clearances:

1) A standard Budd dome is 15' 6" above top of rail (ATOR)
2) Superliners are 16' 2" ATOR)
3) Bi-level gallery cars about the same
4) Covered tri-level auto rack 17'10"
5) Double stack car with two "hi-cube" containers 20' 6"

I believe the North River tunnels will clear 14' 10", the East River tunnels maybe a little more. So no domes, no Superliners. But both domes and gallery cars fit through the Capitol Hill Tunnel south of Washington Union Station, and so so Superliners (of course).

The Howard Street Tunnel in Baltimore will clear covered auto racks, but not hi-cube double stacks.

The Amtrak B&P Tunnel used to have a gauntlet track for freights with auto racks, but that was removed when Amtrak rebuilt the tunnels in the 1980s. I'm guessing the clearance is now 15' 6" or less.

The track in the North River tunnels was completely rebuilt in the 1980s and lowered, and 100-lb. rail was used to increase the clearance even a bit more.
Randy Resor, aka "NellieBly" passed away on November 1, 2013. We honor his memory and his devotion to railroading at railroad.net.

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