First dome ever in HSBG?

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twropr
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First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by twropr » Mon May 16, 2011 12:17 pm

Understand that the NS Office Car special has three cars, one of which is a dome. The train was placed at the Amtrak station in Harrisburg this morning. Is this the first time a dome has been in Harrisburg Station?

Andy

jhdeasy
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by jhdeasy » Mon May 16, 2011 12:35 pm

No, it is not.

Private car MOONLIGHT DOME travelled from Chicago to Philadelphia on The Three Rivers about a half-dozen years ago, then continued south from Philadelphia to Charlotte on The Carolinian. I was there, so I can verify it.

edbear
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by edbear » Mon May 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Pullman built, EMD powered TRAIN of TOMORROW toured the USA in the late 1940s. Since it was displayed and open to the public in a town the size of Framingham, MA, it may have been scheduled into Harrisburg on its nationwide tour.

NellieBly
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by NellieBly » Tue May 17, 2011 8:29 am

I'm sure this is not the first time the NS business train (or the former Conrail business train, which had the same full-length dome) has run into Harrisburg. I was on the NS business train about 10 years ago from Harrisburg to Scranton, and I believe the dome was on the train, although I didn't ride in it.

Also, in (IIRC) 2002 an AAPRCO train ran from Baltimore, via the NEC and the Port Road, through Harrisburg and up the Northern Central to Keating, thence to Clearfield, and it had several domes. I rode in one of them.
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hi55us
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by hi55us » Tue May 17, 2011 9:56 pm

it can make it through the Baltimore tunnels?

Jersey_Mike
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by Jersey_Mike » Wed May 18, 2011 6:44 am

Those tunnels can fit MARC bi-levels so yes.

BuddSilverliner269
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by BuddSilverliner269 » Wed May 18, 2011 6:56 am

The tunnels in Baltimore are not as restrictive as one might think. The problem when it comes to the NEC is NY Penn station and associated tunnels.

strench707
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by strench707 » Wed May 18, 2011 7:44 am

I was under the impression that the Baltimore Tunnels were still notably restrictive in height. MARC's bi-levels are split level cars for a reason. I've never heard of Superliners or MARC's Gallery Cars ever traversing the tunnels, in part because of this reason. Additionally there was a gauntlet track added in sections through the tunnel for TOFC loads which aren't incredibly taller than the bi-levels I wouldn't think... If down the road VRE ever wanted to run sets up there or pool with MARC they couldn't because their bi-levels are too tall. Not saying anytime they'd ever need to do these things but I believe they don't even have the flexibility to do them even if they wanted to. Its too bad the First Street Tunnels into DC can't take the Auto Carriers, that would have opened some cool possibilities.


Davis

BuddSilverliner269
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by BuddSilverliner269 » Wed May 18, 2011 7:48 am

Davis, when I made that comment, I had the Marc cars and the old TOFC trains in mind, but from what I understand, Superliners CAN fit thru through those tunnels. I dont know this for a fact but seem to remember seeing a picture of 1 in Philly and I understood that it came up by way of the NEC, unless it came in by way of Pittsburgh and HBG?

jhdeasy
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by jhdeasy » Wed May 18, 2011 8:49 am

A few points worth mentioning:

AAPRCO 2002 convention train, Chicago section, departed B&O Museum and entered Amtrak northeast corridor track north of the Baltimore tunnels, then turned north onto the Port Road at Perryville. Occupied dome cars under energized catenary.

MOONLIGHT DOME and the five other former Budd C&O Chessie domes have a somewhat lower clearance profile than the "standard" Budd dome. As a result, the occupied car was able to operate Harrisburg - Philadelphia - Washington under energized catenary several years ago. The car also clears into Boston South Station on the route of Amtrak 448/449. It will not clear into New York Penn Station via any of the three routes (East River tubes, Hudson River tubes, Empire/Westside Connection tunnel).

Amtrak did operate a special train of Superliners from CHI to PHL via Pittsburg and Harrisburg a number of years ago. I think it was a promotional event for travel industry marketing. The low level platform on the river side of track 1 at 30th Street Station was used for crew/passenger access.

BuddSilverliner269
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by BuddSilverliner269 » Wed May 18, 2011 9:20 am

Thanks for the info Easy....I guess I was a tad off...

MrBoh
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by MrBoh » Wed May 18, 2011 9:25 am

BuddSilverliner269 wrote: Davis, when I made that comment, I had the Marc cars and the old TOFC trains in mind, but from what I understand, Superliners CAN fit thru through those tunnels. I dont know this for a fact but seem to remember seeing a picture of 1 in Philly and I understood that it came up by way of the NEC, unless it came in by way of Pittsburgh and HBG?
If I remember correctly, Superliners were able to fit through the Baltimore Tunnels when the B&P tunnels had the now disconnected gauntlet track in use. It would limit the tunnel to single direction operations, but would allow taller cars to fit through as they could basically run down the center. Not sure if it was ever really used in practice for anything, whether it be Superliners, dome cars, or higher clearance freight cars by Norfolk Southern.
jhdeasy wrote: A few points worth mentioning:

AAPRCO 2002 convention train, Chicago section, departed B&O Museum and entered Amtrak northeast corridor track north of the Baltimore tunnels, then turned north onto the Port Road at Perryville. Occupied dome cars under energized catenary.
...
This is very interesting, since the only connection that I believe is possible between the NEC and CSX is around the Canton area, seen on this map, where the CSX line (former B&O/Baltimore Belt Line) comes in from the northwest, goes through a wye then southwest towards the Canton industrial area (the mainline towards Philadelphia continues to the east from the wye), and then connects to tracks used by NS to access the Canton area by way of the NEC. Are you aware if this was the connection used? If so, from the B&O Museum the train would have had to traverse the Howard St Tunnel. I never knew if this was just a theoretically possible connection or if it was ever really used. It would certainly be interesting to find out if in fact a passenger train traversed this connection.

JimBoylan
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by JimBoylan » Wed May 18, 2011 9:37 am

I rode an Aug., 2002 private car trip in a California Zhepyr Dome observation sleeper from Harrisburg to the Pittsburgh area partly via the Philadelphia & Erie and Bessemer & Lake Erie RRs. The trip originated in Philadelphia and the domes came from the West and were added in Harrisburg passenger station.
In the early 1990s, I rode ConRail's Big Dome on a circle trip from Philadelphia via the ex-Reading to Rockville wye, returning via Harrisburg station and the Shellpot branch because the dome wouldn't fit in Wilmington, Del. station.
Earlier, I rode an Amfleet trip from Philadelphia to Martinsburg, W.Va. that pulled into Bay View, Md. yard from the NorthEast Corridor, then backed onto the CSXT to go forward into Howard St. Tunnel. No domes, but it did use the connection mentioned in another post.
Last edited by JimBoylan on Wed May 18, 2011 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

jhdeasy
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Re: First dome ever in HSBG?

Post by jhdeasy » Wed May 18, 2011 11:03 am

MrBoh wrote:
jhdeasy wrote: A few points worth mentioning:

AAPRCO 2002 convention train, Chicago section, departed B&O Museum and entered Amtrak northeast corridor track north of the Baltimore tunnels, then turned north onto the Port Road at Perryville. Occupied dome cars under energized catenary.
...
This is very interesting, since the only connection that I believe is possible between the NEC and CSX is around the Canton area, seen on this map, where the CSX line (former B&O/Baltimore Belt Line) comes in from the northwest, goes through a wye then southwest towards the Canton industrial area (the mainline towards Philadelphia continues to the east from the wye), and then connects to tracks used by NS to access the Canton area by way of the NEC. Are you aware if this was the connection used? If so, from the B&O Museum the train would have had to traverse the Howard St Tunnel. I never knew if this was just a theoretically possible connection or if it was ever really used. It would certainly be interesting to find out if in fact a passenger train traversed this connection.

I will make an inquiry on the AAPRCO bulletin board and get back to you if any of my fellow car owner members or their passengers remember the exact routing of the Chicago section of the 2002 convention special train between the B&O Museum and Amtrak's northeast corridor; I trust the rare mileage collectors will know the exact routing.

I don't know that detail, as MOUNT VERNON was in the eastern section of the AAPRCO 2002 convention train, behind Juniata terminal Company's PRR 5711/5809. We did not have any dome cars in our consist. When we left the B&O Museum we cut across Baltimore and then went north on CSX to the Philadelphia area; the special train terminated at Amtrak's 30th Street Station.

timz
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Re: B&P tunnel

Post by timz » Wed May 18, 2011 1:50 pm

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:from what I understand, Superliners CAN fit thru through those tunnels.
1954 Railway Line Clearances doesn't allow Superliner dimensions thru Baltimore; is the tunnel any bigger now than it was then?

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