Oil Trains (RJMA / MARJ, OI-x, etc)

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

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CN9634
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Oil Trains (RJMA / MARJ, OI-x, etc)

Post by CN9634 » Fri May 25, 2012 10:43 am

I had heard a few weeks ago rumors of a BNSF-CSX routing for a crude train headed to Saint John. I naturally assumed that this would be a Pan Am routing. Today, I received confirmation reports on one of the Yahoo groups.

Here is the initial message by bballjohnnynick:

" I was just informed that CSX will hand off a crude oil test train bound for
Canada to the Pan Am at Rotterdam. Power on the train is LEAD UNIT BNSF 8833
(SD70MAC), BNSF 5778 (ES44AC) andBNSF 4426 (c44-9w). This is a 104 car test
train so who knows if it will happen again. Look for it to arrive sometime
tomorrow. I am told it is current in Ohio. If I hear that it is close to
Rotterdam, I will post an update. I would love to know the route this will
follow,on the Pan Am. Will it go via Portland? It would def make for an epic
Chase!"

Further more, there are reports that it is in Buffalo, with an arrival at Rotterdam Tonight. Tomorrow, a daytime run on D3 and D2 and no word on a D1 run. I would say, that it will run D1 Sunday early and arrive at Waterville for a crew and/or power swap. It is possible the power will go all the way to Saint John via PAR, however there are 6-axle restrictions above NMJ which may complicate things. Also, pure speculation on my part, NBSR power could be used from Waterville headed east or PAR run through power.

If I were anyone around Saturday evening or Sunday morning, I would be ready to go between Portland and Waterville. My thoughts is this will be a priority move.

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MEC407
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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by MEC407 » Fri May 25, 2012 11:56 am

Will PAR be able to scrounge up five healthy GP40s to replace the BNSF power east of NMJ? That's a pretty tall order. :wink:
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CN9634
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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by CN9634 » Fri May 25, 2012 12:18 pm

Gonna need more than 5... and it isn't as simply as replacing 4 AC six-axle's with 5 older generation, DC four-axles.

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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by KSmitty » Fri May 25, 2012 12:36 pm

CN9634 wrote:Gonna need more than 5... and it isn't as simply as replacing 4 AC six-axle's with 5 older generation, DC four-axles.
Possible the the BNSF power would go all the way through? As I've understood it the issue was turning radius on tight curves between Bangor's waterfront and OT. Newer power should be radial trucked and able to negotiate tighter curves and crappier track. Course I'd also imagine they dont want to put the stuff on the ground at 2.2 million a copy...

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MEC407
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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by MEC407 » Fri May 25, 2012 1:10 pm

I only counted three units in bballjohnnynick's post, not four, and one of them is a DC unit. If you add up the continuous tractive effort ratings of those three units, you get about 408,000 lbs. If you add up the continuous tractive effort ratings of five GP40s (and again I use the word "healthy" as a requirement here -- that rules out a good chunk of PAR's fleet!) you get 275,000 lbs. So you're absolutely correct that you'd need more than five. My math says you'd need 7 of them, all healthy, all online and all functioning properly, to get to 385,000 lbs tractive effort. Good luck with that...

As far as the trucks go, the lead SD70MAC appears to have radial trucks but the other two units do not.
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CN9634
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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by CN9634 » Fri May 25, 2012 2:03 pm

CSXT ES44DC was added on in Buffalo. You are right though, only 2 AC units.

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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by jaymac » Fri May 25, 2012 2:35 pm

Assuming I'm not hallucinating, there was a WW II photo of a solid tank-car train being hauled to Boston for European shipment. The train was powered by 4 recently-arrived 4200s. The location was either Pownal or Zoar Curve. It might be hard to duplicate the shot now because of tree growth (there was an elevation to the perspective), but nearly 70 years later a somewhat similar and non-slurry move seems like a good photo possibility, assuming daylight running, regardless of whose power is pulling.
The routing is interesting --- CSXT-PAS-PAR instead CSXT-PAR via Worcester.
"Watching trains is better than smoking meth."
--Source, location, and time undisclosed.

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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by KSmitty » Fri May 25, 2012 5:29 pm

Jaymac, I would imagine that they are using RJ because of weight restrictions on the B&A. Thats why the grainers and coal trains all run through RJ or MCVILLE.

MEC407, I thought all ES44AC's, and GEVO's in general came with radial steering trucks standard? The Dash-9 I can see having standard trucks, but assumed both AC units would be radials.

CN9634
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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by CN9634 » Fri May 25, 2012 6:09 pm

Will make Ayer tonight. Could move through the night and daylight through D1 tomorrow. Be prepared for either tomorrow or Sunday D1 run. I'll check Portland early morning to see if anything is there.

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MEC407
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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by MEC407 » Fri May 25, 2012 8:24 pm

KSmitty wrote:MEC407, I thought all ES44AC's, and GEVO's in general came with radial steering trucks standard?
Nope, they're still optional.
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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by doublestack » Sat May 26, 2012 7:11 am

Reports are saying the unit train with CSXT 5410 leading the BNSF power is close to Lawrence MA as of 7:30am today, 5/26.
Peter

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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by bostontrainguy » Sat May 26, 2012 10:07 am

KSmitty wrote:Jaymac, I would imagine that they are using RJ because of weight restrictions on the B&A. Thats why the grainers and coal trains all run through RJ or MCVILLE.
Actually just the opposite. The B&A is the only route across the region that allows 315,000 lbs all the way to Boston. PAS is 286,000 to Ayer and less than that east of Ayer and into Maine.

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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by KSmitty » Sat May 26, 2012 10:14 am

bostontrainguy wrote:
KSmitty wrote:Jaymac, I would imagine that they are using RJ because of weight restrictions on the B&A. Thats why the grainers and coal trains all run through RJ or MCVILLE.
Actually just the opposite. The B&A is the only route across the region that allows 315,000 lbs all the way to Boston. PAS is 286,000 to Ayer and less than that east of Ayer and into Maine.
That is car weight limits. I'm talking train weight limits...POSE on occasion has to leave cars in Hill Yard in Ayer because the B&A has some sort of train length and weight restrictions that PAR's lines do not.

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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by bostontrainguy » Sat May 26, 2012 10:30 am

KSmitty wrote:
bostontrainguy wrote:
KSmitty wrote:Jaymac, I would imagine that they are using RJ because of weight restrictions on the B&A. Thats why the grainers and coal trains all run through RJ or MCVILLE.
Actually just the opposite. The B&A is the only route across the region that allows 315,000 lbs all the way to Boston. PAS is 286,000 to Ayer and less than that east of Ayer and into Maine.
That is car weight limits. I'm talking train weight limits...POSE on occasion has to leave cars in Hill Yard in Ayer because the B&A has some sort of train length and weight restrictions that PAR's lines do not.
Don't know what the B&A can't handle that the B&M can. The only difference of course would be grade but it's not exactly the Sandpatch across the Berkshires. Maybe someone else knows why?

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Re: Mid-West Unit Crude train to Saint John via Maine

Post by KSmitty » Sat May 26, 2012 10:42 am

Train Length, and total train weight. Thats what the B&A can't handle that the B&M can. Things that fall into the category would be coal trains, grain trains and evidently oil trains. Heavy and long.

Its pretty simple, CSX has rules about how long and heavy a train can be going across the B&A, PAR doesnt have as strict a set of rules, and so train length and weight can be longer and heavier. The whole 315,000/286,000 thing is a per car basis. If your total train weight limit is set, it takes less 315,000lbs cars to fill out a train than it does 286,000lbs cars, but the total train weight is the same. B&A's line can handle heavier cars but not heavier trains. The 2 things aren't related. The reason I've always heard is exactly what you mentioned, the grades. PAR's line is less intense.

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