"Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

gokeefe
Posts: 11953
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by gokeefe » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:44 pm

Right ... Simply that relations between the carrier and the terminal switcher might not go as smoothly as one would hope. My take is that the corporate links Watco->NS->PAS->PAR would bode well for this.

Makes me wonder if there's a max train length for the Rumford Branch ... Even informally if not in the bulletins.
gokeefe

User avatar
690
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:50 am
Location: Maine

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by 690 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:54 pm

How exactly do you propose they’ll be running sixty car trains out of Rumford?

As for a train limit, it’s supposed to be 70 cars on the branch, but that gets waved whenever there’s a train that’s over 70 cars.

KSmitty
Posts: 2051
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:29 pm
Location: Maine

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by KSmitty » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:33 pm

gokeefe wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:44 pm
Right ... Simply that relations between the carrier and the terminal switcher might not go as smoothly as one would hope. My take is that the corporate links Watco->NS->PAS->PAR would bode well for this.
You're still missing the point...It's got nothing to do with how much switching goes on at Rumford or how well WATCO and ST can play together. ST is capable of adding switch crews, they could provide 24/7 on site switching in Rumford. They are also well practiced in dealing with 3rd party switchers, they do it every day in Skowhegan. It's not a logistic or operations issue.

It's all about how Billerica feels about losing the contract and how they respond. Pan Am's management and ND management already don't get along well. If Billerica feels sleighted by ND for losing the switching contract they may respond by cancelling or setting back crew starts, taxiing crews from the branch to other trains while letting PORU/RUPO sit, general feet dragging... There are plenty of games they can play to slow transit times and screw up supply lines for the mill. It would seem like it would be a foolish decision, but what's a massive mill going to do? Stop rail service all together? It's a largely captive customer, and they can show their displeasure in losing the contract to the customer in all sorts of creative and entertaining ways. Sometimes it's not an accident that service sucks, sometimes its a petty pissing match.

PBMcGinnis
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:49 am

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by PBMcGinnis » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:48 pm

What proof do you have that ND Paper and Pan Am don't get along?

CN9634
Posts: 2311
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:50 pm

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by CN9634 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:34 pm

You'd think based on this discussion that all hell is breaking loose in Pan Am land. Good opportunity to move crews further west where they are needed and my understanding is no real love-loss at Pan Am as long as they still get the linehaul, which obviously they will. Also a strong sign from ND Paper they aren't going to play ball like everyone has previously, so credit to them making a statement.

newpylong
Posts: 4279
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:32 pm
Location: NH

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by newpylong » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:11 am

Deep breaths.

I would think they would not have sold the yard to the mill if they felt overly strongly about switching it forever, or they wanted it maintained on someone else's dime.
Last edited by newpylong on Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
690
Posts: 780
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:50 am
Location: Maine

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by 690 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:27 am

Rumford (and Rileys) are two of the customers that are actually switched as the mills want, not based on what the railroad deems fit. Unless there's an emergency somewhere on the branch, the mill switchers don't get cabbed elsewhere. And the crews based up there are damn good crews too, making sure all the work gets done quickly and efficiently.

In my personal opinion, this isn't a result of lack of service (we've been servicing them very well, especially as far as Pan Am goes), but more a middle finger to the railroads management, and their unwillingness to work with the mills.

newpylong
Posts: 4279
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:32 pm
Location: NH

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by newpylong » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:11 pm

Makes sense to me!

pnolette
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:33 pm
Location: Maine

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by pnolette » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:15 pm

I'm hearing Pan Am didn't put in a bid.Could be wrong of coarse.
Peter B&MMEC

gokeefe
Posts: 11953
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:28 pm
Location: Winthrop, Maine

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by gokeefe » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:53 pm

690 wrote:In my personal opinion, this isn't a result of lack of service (we've been servicing them very well, especially as far as Pan Am goes), but more a middle finger to the railroads management, and their unwillingness to work with the mills.
Interesting outcome and analysis. I will say that every indication I've seen is that the railroad is taking the needs of large customers very seriously.

I would also note that the new ownership has a historical preference for direct control over their shipping terminals.
gokeefe

CN9634
Posts: 2311
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:50 pm

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by CN9634 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:22 pm

Funding for Pan Am D1 improvements has come through

https://www.collins.senate.gov/newsroom ... provements

roberttosh
Posts: 1012
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:21 pm

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by roberttosh » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:39 am

Are these improvements going to be on the section between Waterville and Bangor or between Waterville an Portland, or a little of both?

Also, any news on when ND Paper at Old Town will open?

pnolette
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:33 pm
Location: Maine

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by pnolette » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:25 am

Acording to the article,between Royal and Waterville
Peter B&MMEC

CN9634
Posts: 2311
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:50 pm

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by CN9634 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:10 am

New signals, control sidings for New Gloucester, Fairgrounds and Leeds, stick rail replacement especially in Auburn/Greene up through to Readfield/Belgrade. If you are fancy to MEC searchlight signals I’d start racking up the pics now

PBMcGinnis
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:49 am

Re: "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

Post by PBMcGinnis » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:34 am

Of course WATCO would be a better option for the local switching and it makes sense Pan Am would not put in a bid for it.
1) WATCO crews will get paid significantly cheaper (non-union potentially) wages
2) Pan Am still has the line haul from the mill to the outbound interchanges, so no traffic is lost.
3) Not a lot of people banging on the door these days to become train crews - so WATCO may still find staffing a challenge

Return to “Pan Am Railways (formerly Guilford Rail System)”