Post EHH Changes for CSX

Discussion of the operations of CSX Transportation, from 1980 to the present. Official site can be found here: CSXT.COM.

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Backshophoss
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by Backshophoss »

It just might take an "uprising" of a whole bunch of the "small" shareholders to take on the Majority shareholders and the Corp to change their ways.
That will be a "uphill" battle at best,unless some of the customers(major + minor) are willing to ally with the "small"shareholders
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D40LF
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by D40LF »

Leo_Ames wrote:One post EHH change, while already in the works before his demise, is the elimination of all EMD 710 engined power.

The SD60 family have just been retired en masse, the SD80MAC's went even before Harrison entered the picture, the SD70ACe's are now all gone, and the SD70M's and remaining SD70MAC's are on the hit list and may not see 2018 out.

Haven't heard of the three GP60's being at risk, but CSX isn't going to stock 710 parts just for three oddballs. With the C40-8W's leaving quickly (The entire group of former Conrail units just went, with further mass retirements planned for 2018), CSX looks set to soon be the first US/Canadian Class 1 to not own a single Dash 8 or EMD with a 710 engine under the hood.

It will all be Dash 9/AC4400CW's and newer GE's on road freights, with 4 and 6 axle 1970's era EMD's holding down the other assignments (The SD50's are threatened, but not long ago were considered a solid platform with rebuilds underway, so a reprieve may happen there with Hunter out of the picture).
I haven't heard anything about the SD70Ms and MACs going. Some may be in storage, but nothings been confirmed yet. Then again, CSX is becoming really unpredictable with these things.

CP and KCS don't have any Dash 8s. BNSF and UP still have a few, but they're mostly found on locals or in storage lines. No 710s would be weird though, but...

Don't forget the 13 SD33ECOs (classified as SD40E3) that CSX took delivery of early last year. They have 12-710 engines, and I doubt that they will be retired anytime soon.

Matt Langworthy
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by Matt Langworthy »

Backshophoss wrote:It just might take an "uprising" of a whole bunch of the "small" shareholders to take on the Majority shareholders and the Corp to change their ways.
That will be a "uphill" battle at best,unless some of the customers(major + minor) are willing to ally with the "small"shareholders
A majority of my fellow smaller shareholders are probably unaware of the long term challenges, and those who do know might not care. I like your idea but even assembling the troops for this uphill fight seems unlikely to happen.
Matt Langworthy

"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."

Matt Langworthy
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by Matt Langworthy »

D40LF wrote:CP and KCS don't have any Dash 8s. BNSF and UP still have a few, but they're mostly found on locals or in storage lines.
Except for the dozen or so units that made into the 8.5 rebuild program, NS has unloaded their Dash 8s, as well. I was sad to see the Dash 8s leave CSX, but hardly surprised given their age. Thankfully, 20 of the ex-CSX Dash 8s are now on Pan Am... so they'll live on for a while.
Matt Langworthy

"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."

Leo_Ames
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by Leo_Ames »

I forgot about the Eco repowers, D40LF. Maybe the GP60's have a future at CSX then, but the SD70M's and SD70MAC's have been at the center of a lot of rumors that so far have panned out. That they and the CSX fleet of bought new C40/C44-8W's are almost entirely stored, also lends weight that they'll be following through just as they just did with several fleets on their roster.

Still officially rumors, but it's looking likely they'll follow the SD60's and the like. And it's worth noting that we haven't seen any follow-up Eco reorder or further C40-8WM's since the late Hunter Harrison regime seized control, so these essentially one-off rebuilds may not be long lived at CSX. Even the successful Dash 3 program is dead at CSX. Nothing has been outshopped since late last winter, which coincides with the change of management.

And Norfolk Southern still is routinely running 130-140 C40-8W's consistently at any one time from the ~150 or so units that they inherited from Conrail at the split. With ~100 modern EMD's and GE's stored at any one time for major DC to AC rebuilding and that number looking set to stay constant for several years to come, NS will be in the Dash 8 camp for the foreseeable future unless there's a drop in traffic or they buy additional power. Not enough idle SD60E's, ES44's, and so on to take up their place on the mainline and many of those are stored pending shop time anyways.

To be completely honest, I did forget that KCS and CPR never were in the Dash 8 camp (As well as Via Rail). I should've said that CSX is looking likely to be the first US or Canadian based Class 1 that rostered Dash 8's to eliminate them from the fleet.

Matt Langworthy
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by Matt Langworthy »

I should have been more specific. I was referring to standard cab Dash 8s on NS. The widecab Dash 8s are still there.
Matt Langworthy

"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."

gokeefe
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by gokeefe »

Matt Langworthy wrote:It's a nice idea... but I don't think that will happen. EHH wasn't operating in a vacuum. He had the support of the majority of shareholders and the board itself -they were onboard with the cuts to crews, equipment and physical plant to enhance profits. They aren't likely to change that philosophy now. On top of that, Foote was EHH's lackey anyway. Aside from a few tweaks, including renewal of the tunnel project, he'll stay the course with EHH's practices.

Mind you, I am a CSX shareholder who does NOT like the current style of management. It is only good for enhancing profits short term, maybe a few years at most. At some point, CSX will have to reinvest in equipment and physical plant... which hurt profits and the stock price. The cuts to crews and customers happening now will make the recovery process more difficult. Sadly, Foote and those of EHH's mindset don't care. They'll be gone by the time comes to pick up the pieces.
I do not see the reversal on Howard Street as a "tweak". This was a major change to an enormous portion of the capital spending. Harrison killed it and within hours (literally) of his death the company had reversed its position. I will not be in the least bit surprised if the proposed reductions to capital spending plans at West Baltimore get reversed as well.
gokeefe

Matt Langworthy
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by Matt Langworthy »

I see the tunnel as a relatively minor tweak. The cost is small compared to CSX's overall budget. And if anyone thinks Foote is about to reverse EHH's policies, here is an article from trains.com that clearly states Foot's philosophy:
In a symbolic move, Foote’s first decision after being named chief executive in December was ordering the hump bulldozed at Tilford Yard in Atlanta. The yard was one of eight humps converted to flat-switching last year under Harrison, who died in December.

“Atlanta hump yard today is flat,” Foote says. “There is no turning back.”
Furthermore, his second-in-command states the policy of more drag freights and locomotives in storage will continue. EHH is dead, but his policies will continue.
Matt Langworthy

"It is highly likely that the 1990s were an overrated decade."

ccutler
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by ccutler »

Interesting that CSX Q4 revenues are down 7%. Profits are up but not so much, in my opinion, compared to clients lost.

gokeefe
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by gokeefe »

I noticed that too. Not impressive at all especially considering such a strong economy and a moderate increase in fuel prices.
gokeefe

mmi16
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by mmi16 »

ccutler wrote:Interesting that CSX Q4 revenues are down 7%. Profits are up but not so much, in my opinion, compared to clients lost.
If there is one thing CSX has done consistently well it is 'book cooking'. They have cooked up a good one this time!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!

gokeefe
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by gokeefe »

Well ... I find it interesting that even after the modified reporting they are still down.
gokeefe

johnpbarlow
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by johnpbarlow »

From Trains Magazine on-line: "CSX reviewing 8,000 miles of rail lines for potential sale"

http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... ntial-sale

Excerpt:
Routes under review include:
The former B&O from Greenwich, Ohio, to Baltimore.
The former Boston & Albany main and related branch lines in Massachusetts.
The former Louisville & Nashville between Cincinnati and Atlanta.
Most of the former Baltimore & Ohio main linking East St. Louis, Ill., and Cincinnati.
Former Pere Marquette trackage in Michigan.
CSX’s cross-border incursions into Canada and related U.S. trackage.
The railroad’s hard-hit Appalachian coal network, including portions of the former Clinchfield.
Large sections of the Florence Division in the Carolinas.
The Dothan sub in Alabama and Georgia.
The Auburndale sub in Florida.
Branches and redundant trackage scattered around the system, including some in Alabama, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and New York.

Backshophoss
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by Backshophoss »

Wonder if that includes the Oak Point yard and the Hellgate freight trackage to Fremont and MNR Freight rights??
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!

SemperFidelis
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Re: Post EHH Changes for CSX

Post by SemperFidelis »

The only thing that really stands out in all of that is the sale of the old B&A across Massachusetts. I would imagine that is a very profitable route with a sh-t ton (technical term, perfectly accurate) of interchange (traditional freight) and quite a lot of intermodal. Seems the only major line listed whose raison d'être (generally coal) isn't either gone rapidly disappearing.

Perhaps they are hoping to unload ownership of the line (and the undoubtedly huge amount of taxes they pay on it) while remaining the operator. Not a bad idea if the Commonwealth is dumb enough to give into corporate taxation blackmail (see Walmart store locations, Amazon HQ2 search etc.).
Last edited by SemperFidelis on Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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