CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

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Shortline614
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CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by Shortline614 »

From Trains Magazine: http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... uebec-city

Canadian Pacific has hinted that they are looking into acquiring the Gennsee & Wyoming owned Quebec Gatineau Railway, a 301 mile shortline between Ottawa and Quebec City, which CP to G&W in 1997.

CP also said they would look into the possibility of purchasing other G&W shortlines in both the US and Canada. The article mentions the article mentions St. Lawrence & Atlantic, however I don't see any reason why CP would want it. The Chicago, Fort Wayne & Eastern is a likely possibility due to CP partnering with G&W to try out intermodal services between Vancouver and the Ohio River Valley.

CP seems to be looking for ways to expand their network, without going full out and trying to buy another Class I like they tired with NS back in 2015-2016. Buying out shortlines and regionals is a lot safter bet.
C&O: George Washington's Railroad!

Engineer Spike
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by Engineer Spike »

QGRY seems like a good buy. While working in St-Luc Yard, I was often held up by the very lengthy trains. Based on that experience, it makes me wonder what CP was thinking when they sold it.

I wonder if some of the G&W lines might be able to cobble together a Chicago to Detroit route? Never mind the container deal. To have a line which does what GTW does for CN would really help CP. I have heard that NS only allows so many slots on their lines for CP trackage rights. Maybe it’s time to break away.

mtuandrew
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by mtuandrew »

Not sure why CP sold both legs of the QGRY. Montreal-Gatineau makes sense, the line is effectively severed at the Ottawa River. Montreal-Quebec City doesn’t make sense to have sold because there’s probably enough traffic to support the line - that is probably why CP wants it back.

As for DET-CHI, the three options I see for CP-controlled track are
-IORY to CFER, but the interchange with IORY is blocked by CN at Flat Rock and would have to be regulated out to CP in a fair way somehow.
-buying out the Watco company operating the Michigan Central, then buying the NS rights to Michigan City and finally buying out South Shore Freight. Hah. Right.
-purchasing a boatload of CSX track: the ex-Pere Marquette from Detroit to Porter and the ex-Michigan Central from Porter to IHB Burnham Yard.

CPF363
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by CPF363 »

mtuandrew wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:53 pm
As for DET-CHI, the three options I see for CP-controlled track are
-IORY to CFER, but the interchange with IORY is blocked by CN at Flat Rock and would have to be regulated out to CP in a fair way somehow.
-buying out the Watco company operating the Michigan Central, then buying the NS rights to Michigan City and finally buying out South Shore Freight. Hah. Right.
-purchasing a boatload of CSX track: the ex-Pere Marquette from Detroit to Porter and the ex-Michigan Central from Porter to IHB Burnham Yard.
It is difficult to understand as to why CP has never tried to fully acquire their own DET-CHI line especially when CN had the parallel GTW. This is the biggest hole in the network that would connect CP's lines in Southern Ontario to Chicago and west. Have often wondered why the Soo Line did not acquire the former Michigan Central from Detroit to Joliet when Penn Central was bankrupt. Then the line never really fit into Conrail after the Canada southern was abandoned in later years. It is puzzling as to why CP did not try to acquire the line during the Conrail split. Even more recently, NS tried to short line the route with a reincarnated Michigan Central short line. The parallel Pere Marquette CSX line is longer but would solve the DET-CHI problem; would CSX consider selling it to include the Porter Branch for a direct lien to Gibson Yard? Is there sufficient space at Porter to build a bridge over the NS connecting the old Pere Marquette to the Porter Branch? Could CSX also consider divesting of the old PRR to Crestline?

johnpbarlow
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by johnpbarlow »

CP operates only 3 to 6 daily trains between the Chicago area and Detroit: 140/141 autos + manifest (daily), 147 (autos (5x/week), 240/241 autos + manifest (3x/week or so), and 240 autos (daily). And, of course, CP has no double stack cleared tunnel under the Detroit River necessitating the routing of its 142/143 Chicago - Toronto stack trains via CSX and Buffalo. So I'm guessing CP doesn't feel economically compelled to pursue its own track (especially if there are few on-line customers) between Chicago and Detroit as doing so wouldn't generate incremental revenue/profit. IMO.

mtuandrew
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by mtuandrew »

CP/Soo really shot themselves in the feet when it didn’t have the Canadian government directly lobby to allow the Canadian lines to each buy a Buffalo-New York Harbor line and for CP to get a Detroit-Chicago line in the Conrail reorganization. It made more bad decisions when it then shed all those shortlines in the 1980s and 1990s. It’s very much like Conrail - demand fell, interest in local traffic generators fell, consolidating systems became the trend, investment money became harder to find for expansion and easier for retrenchment, and lines that weren’t really parallel became “excess.” Selling the Lake States Transportation Division (ex-Soo) wholesale was a bad move; Soo and CNW could have jointly owned a rationalized Wisconsin Central without antitrust concerns and frozen CN out of the Midwest. Losing the trans-Maine line was another poor decision that allowed CN nearly-exclusive access to Saint John. The Iowa-Minnesota Rail Link adventure (later Iowa Chicago & Eastern) denied CP a Kansas City link for years.

Short of merger or a billion-dollar deal for the ex-C&O nee Pere Marquette, CP won’t get a line between Detroit and Chicago. It can never get a direct line between Buffalo and New Jersey absent a merger.

Shortline614
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by Shortline614 »

Would CSX be even willing to sell the former Pere Marquette? Last time I checked in 2016, there wasn't much traffic left on that line. Has any of this changed in the past four years? What trains does CSX run over it?
C&O: George Washington's Railroad!

Engineer Spike
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by Engineer Spike »

I think that CPR always seemed to be behind the times. Until Hunter came, CP seemed like it was ten years behind the times. When CN privatized, CP seemed to be caught with its pants down. Until the split of CP Ltd., it seems like there was a profitability problem. The Conrail split seemed to coincide with the breakup. It seems like they were too preoccupied. NS had proposed that if it won Conrail, CP would get what would prevent NS from antitrust issues. Unfortunately for CP, NS and CSX came up with the Conrail split.

I wonder how far CP could have gotten in the Conrail proceedings if they argued that D&H was legislated to be the competition for Conrail. Now that there were two choices in NS and CSX, D&H’s viability was compromised. Do any of you think the STB would have bitten on that argument? They might have gotten something in MI, maybe the Nickel Plate, or ex PRR. Maybe a St. Louis gateway could have been had.

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GOLDEN-ARM
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by GOLDEN-ARM »

cp/d&h/nysw.

boom, head-shot.

mtuandrew
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by mtuandrew »

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:25 am
cp/d&h/nysw.

boom, head-shot.
NYSW is still owned jointly by CSX and NS. There would have to be an antitrust action to pry the road out of their hands.

shizzy617
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Re: CP says they will look into acquiring G&W owned shortlines

Post by shizzy617 »

It makes sense to acquire more lines leading directly to Michigan and Illinois. If CP is going to acquire mileage in Northern New England, try to acquire tracks down into Massachusetts if there is enough traffic

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