Question regarding Santa Fe paint schemes

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lucakiki

Question regarding Santa Fe paint schemes

Post by lucakiki » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:01 am

Hi all! I am a newbie, and have a few questions. Being ItalianI am absolutely ignorant on American trains, but I happened to purchase a few Santa Fè engines, and quite a lot of assorted freight cars. N gauge!
I would like to avoid at least the bigger mistakes in representing the real scenery.

Q 1 All of my engines are in the red / silver livery in what I think is called the War Bonnet scheme : did they ever use this livery also for freight trains, before switching to Blue yellow (Given this is true!) for freight traffic?
Q2 Would/ could freight cars from different companies end up on Santa Fe roads?
Q3 . Would or would not at least the caboose be always be in Santa Fe livery?
Q4 I have passenger coaches in Silver with a red stripe along the windows: what does this red stripe mean compared with the all silver livery? Earlier, later, or just different?

Thank you very much for any help and suggestion.
Luca

uhaul

Post by uhaul » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:31 pm

The Red Warbonnet was used as a passenger paint scheme, but eventually units in this paint scheme moved to freight service.
Here is the abriged paint scheme history of the ATSF.

The FP45, U28CG, and U30CG were the last locomotive classes delivered in the ATSF Red Warbonnet. The FP45s & U30CGs received the small ATSF lettering.
www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=192023
www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=52120
While the U28CGs received the large Billboard style lettering.
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=644590
In the early 1970s a limited number of F7s received a variation on the Red Warbonnet called the Yellowbonnet or Bluebonnet
http://members.aol.com/JFuhrtrain01/CF7 ... onnets.htm
Then there was the mostly blue paint scheme.
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=390563
ATSF started to paint units in the Yellow & Blue scheme.
www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=42062
ATSF thought it was going to merge with Southern Pacific, but that fell through. Still there were a fair amount of units in the Kodachrome scheme.
http://atsf.railfan.net/sfkodcrm/kjpgs/db1574.jpg
Once again ATSF painted units in the Yellow & Blue scheme.
http://www.trainpix.com/ATSF/EMDORIG/GP60/4032.HTM
In 1989 The revised Warbonnet was introduced and the only locomotive class to be repainted into this scheme were the FP45s.
www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=18251
All other units in this scheme were brand new units.
www.trainpix.com/ATSF/GE/B40-8W/582B.HTM

Freight cars from many railroads, leasing companies, and etc. routinely showed up on ATSF rails.

Even eleven years after the BN & ATSF merger there still exists a number of ATSF painted cabooses.

I am afraid that I can not answer the passanger car question for you, but I am sure someone else can.

If you see any discrepancies please feel free to add your input.

lucakiki

Post by lucakiki » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:15 pm

Thank you so much, UHAUL.

Another question: did any F7 in Warbonnet red/ silver livery ever get used to haul freight in their original livery, without being first repainted in yellow bonnet or bluebonnet scheme?
I am asking because all the F7 engines and B units I have, are in the red silver scheme.

In other words, If I keep all of my engines ( as said I have mostly A7s) in red silver livery, can I use them to haul freight trains or would that be totally unrealistic?
Thank you.

uhaul

Post by uhaul » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:01 pm

There were some red Warbonnet F7s meant to haul both freight and passengers. I also think there were red Warbonnet painted F7s dedicated to purely freight service. Well, by the 1970s the remaining F7s were assigned to freight service.
Here is a photo showing some ex. passenger units hauling freight.
www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=84766
Glad I could help.

lucakiki

Post by lucakiki » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:29 pm

Thank you again. While browsing around I had found a black and white picture where the cars had the stripe at window level I was talking about. Unortunately I managed to lose the URL, and no way I could retrieve it.
I am wondering whether or not the red stripe on my minitrix coaches depicts some kind of reality, or not.

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Post by Komachi » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:37 am

There are some who would move this to the Scale Model Trains Forum, however, since this topic is related to Santa Fe paint schemes, etc., I'll allow it for the time being.

Hopefully we can help our "newbie" out in the hobby.

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Otto Vondrak
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Post by Otto Vondrak » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:55 am

You might also find more detailed information here:

http://www.atsfrr.com/

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Post by Tadman » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:03 pm

To my knowledge, there was never any stainless lightweight passenger cars belonging to Santa Fe and painted with a maroon window stripe. That is a fiction created by Bachman or Atlas or some other model manufacturer. I also think most ATSF lightweight rolling stock was made by Pullman out of carbon steel with cosmetic fluting. The obivious exception was the hi-level cars for El Capitan, which were all-stainless. No stripes of any nature were used.

lucakiki

Post by lucakiki » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:18 pm

First of all,Komachi, thank you for allowing my post to stay in this section. As a matter of fact I enquired about the real railway and rolling stock,regardless of my need to use the information for modelling purposes.

Tadman, thank you for the information. I only wish I had not "lost" the URL to that black and white picture showing a stripe ( whatever its colour) on the windows line, as that way you guys could have explained it to me.

lucakiki

follow up

Post by lucakiki » Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:21 am

Tadman wrote:To my knowledge, there was never any stainless lightweight passenger cars belonging to Santa Fe and painted with a maroon window stripe. That is a fiction created by Bachman or Atlas or some other model manufacturer..

I found another picture, luckily in color this time..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_car

Tadman, click on the link and you can see what I meant, in color, by stripe along the windows line.

Can any of you please explain me what this red stripe meant?

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Otto Vondrak
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Post by Otto Vondrak » Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:49 pm

If this is the photo you are talking about...

Image

... it looks like this car was repainted by the new owner. This is not a photo of a Santa Fe painted car.

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lucakiki

Post by lucakiki » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:43 pm

Otto Vondrak wrote:If this is the photo you are talking about...

Image

... it looks like this car was repainted by the new owner. This is not a photo of a Santa Fe painted car.

-otto-
Yes, that is the picture. I am aware tthat this is not a Santa FE car, but shows the kind of livery I was talking about.
If it was never used on Santa Fe consists, then I have to repaint my model minitrix cars. I wil appreciate any advice.

lucakiki

Post by lucakiki » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:43 pm

Sorry for double post. Let me use this otherwise wasted space to thank all who helped me.
Last edited by lucakiki on Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by John_Perkowski » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:00 pm

Santa Fe's second Super Chief (the first was all-heavyweight) was built baggage car to markers by Budd.

I'd have to look at one of my consist books, but Budd and Pullman-Standard each got a goodly share of ATSF passenger business. ACF was the also-ran in this competition.

SFAIK, Santa Fe stuck with the Paul Cret pure stainless... EXCEPT for buying their share of the 1942 lot of VALLEY (6-6-4) series Pullmans, which came to them in TTG.
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Post by umtrr-author » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:00 am

Allow me to recommend another website as well for general research:

http://www.qstation.org

This site includes ATSF, BN and BNSF content as well as being a clearinghouse of validated links to other quality sites.
George in Rochester NY
The Unofficial Micro-Trains Release Report (among other things)

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