SPECULATIVE BNSF & NS MERGER (RUMORS/DISCUSSION HERE)

[Komachi]

U-Haul wrote...

"I heard the Atchison Topeka Santa Fe was surrounded by Burlington Northern so a merger made 'sense'."

Yeah, that does make sense, actually, but I'm going to go back and read the specifics (haven't had time today, had a lot on my plate I needed to accomplish, business-wise). At least it wasn't of the "Prepare to be asimilated, resistance is futile" type merger of UP/C&NW.


Although, we have a couple "regulars" on this forum who are current/former BN and SF employees (maybe a few UP, NS or CSXT guys who lurk here), and just railroaders in general. Maybe they're more in tune as to what the driving factors were for the aforementioned mergers. Also, insiders can either confirm or deny any conspiracy theories of a BNSF/NS merger.

[Engineer James]

U-Haul> Well, u do ahve a good point, cause BNSF has Many Numbers Unless they go to 5 digit numbering? Or add letters on the Cab such as #1536B, and so on.....

Erik> I never knew that The CN/BC Merger was ever gonna happen, thats news to my ears, however, i still Like the BC paint scheme... Anyway, well we must think if it would be beneficial to either company.... NS has alot of the old CR euqipment, and several Coal Routes of C&O, and the Old N&W.

BNSF, has a good section (Bigger the UP's some believe) of the Powder River Area, and has a lot of the natural gas deposits that Santa Fe Used to use....

[route_rock]

BNSF is NOT merging. We use run through power. I have handled KCS TFM UP NS EMD CN Yadda yadda yadda. We are NOT merging with anyone. Just cause you see power from one road or another doesnt mean much. OUr GALCNI can run with CN power or BNSF or whatever Fort Worth deems needs to go on said train.
But I do get a kick out of this string BTW we loaned the Santa Fe the money to buy the BN,.

[John_Perkowski]

It would depend on which company was the major partner in a merger.

If it's the folks in Fort Worth, possibly yes.

If it's NS, possibly no.

Would this be a good or bad thing for Amtrak? I've noticed that the Empire Builder does very well, perhaps they could improve trains that run on NS tracks.

Aside from this, a merger would be a fairly significant emotional event here in Kansas City. NS North KC yard, BNSF (ATSF) Argentine and BNSF (BN-CB&Q) Murray are within 10 miles of each other throat to throat. NS NKC and BNSF Murray in fact are just "around the bend" of the Missouri in KC from each other on the N side of the river. Granted, Murray is now more a staging facility than a hump yard. Even so I could see managers declaring redundancy, especially in the shop forces.

John Perkowski

[amtrakhogger]

I doubt any mergers will take place currently. I used to think that a
coast to coast "transcon" was the ultimate grail for the big carriers. But
there were plenty of opportunities over the years to have a transcon carrier (other than CN/CP).
After these meltdowns over the SP and CR mergers, I wouldn't think that
any carrier would be eager to merge. Also just having a transcon to link
both coasts isn't always in the best financial interest of the carrier.

However, at this point having transcon carriers will be the obvious move
owing to the fact that merging roads like CSX-NS or UP-BNSF would
create east or west coast monopolies with no regional competition.

[Engineer James]

Amtrakhogger> yes, you are correct. Eeven these small short lines cannot compete....

[amtrakhogger]

I would like to see (if it happens of course) that if BNSF and NS merge that
BNSF remains and the merged carrier retain the BNSF paint scheme.

13d black, yuck!

[Engineer James]

Or Put the new Paint job on the NS locos, or do BNSF typing as they did on the SF locos.... we will see if it ever happens.....

[Engineer James]

GUYS! I was crusing the net, and found this ARTISTS representation of the NEW (If it ever happens) BNSF and NS paint scheme:

http://www.qstation.org/bnsfns/bnnssf.gif

Now, again, RUMOR!!! We don't know if it gonna happen, but I saw it and thought ya'll should know what I found.....

[Komachi]

No.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no...


NO!


Absolutely not. No.


One, I honestly don't see that as becoming a legitimate paint scheme, beyond the wild (very wild) imagination of an artist who is exercising quite a bit of artistic license with that scheme. And two, everybody assumes that the new railroad name will be an almagamation of BNSF and NS (i.e. BNNSSF). That also, I don't believe will happen, unless they just keep it BNSF. If (BIG IF) it happens, then I believe they will create a whole new entity and name devoid of either road's heritage. Maybe HHR (Huge Horkin Railroad) or URN (Uber-Railway Network) or ICR (Inter-Coasal Rail)... maybe TRANSCON, for Transcontinental Railroad Co.?

Still, I don't see a BNSF-BN merger in the forseeable future. If there's any road that BNSF will try to merge with or takeover, it will be KCS. The last issue of Trains talked about KCS and how it's poised to become a major player in intermodal operations... especially in Mexico (which I alluded to earlier in this thread in regards to having an advantage for merging), where they are going to be in a good position if some of the Mexican ports become viable alternatives to Long Beach. And frankly, I see that as the next railroad to acquire either wholesale, or in parts, much as CSXT and NS divided Conrail amongst themselves. This time I can see it as a two to four-way fight, mainly between BNSF and UP, with some concessions to CSXT and NS.


Although, I still don't see any evidence for a BNSF-NS merger beyond people pointing to pictures of shared power in yards and a paint job that is the product of a wild imagination gone awry. Anyone have anything a little more tangable to share?

[amtrakhogger]

I hope any merger will see NS go bye-bye. Especially the paint job!

Re-name the new carrier Santa Fe. Warbonnets over Horseshoe!

[Engineer James]

Amtrak> That Will be the day! I could NEVER Imagine Warbonnets over Horseshoe.... NEVER!!!!

Erik> Don't you like it? *BS* To tell you the truth, I think it actually looks pretty neat using all the Roads and Paint schemes.... but not on the SDP45's. Maybe start with a few road engines, the Geeps, and the Yard Slugs, then go on from there!

[Komachi]

James,

I think Adam Sandler put it best...


"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! THEY'RE ALL GOING TO LAUGH AT YOU!!!!!!!"


That paint scheme would never happen, it's too busy, too gaudy, garish, a riot of colors that clash with one another. It would make the railroad the laughing stock of the industry. While paint schemes are meant to grab peoples' attention and work as a meme or mnemonic device... this just doesn't cut it. It does pay homage to the Burlington Northern, Santa Fe and Norfolk Southern paint schemes... but it does so haphazardly. It doesn't matter if it's on an SDP45 or a Plymouth DDT, it's just wrong on a number of levels.

Besides, said rendering was meant to be a humerous, tounge-in-cheek poke at the rumors of said merger and not to be taken seriously.


"That Will be the day! I could NEVER Imagine Warbonnets over Horseshoe.... NEVER!!!!"

Imagine it. The warbonnet was, and still is, one of the most recognizable paint schemes ever developed for a railroad. However, I still hold to the idea that any new entity that comes from the merger of the two roads will claim its own identity over the predecessor roads'. The only thing of that scheme that I could see working would be the warbonnet orange with the black and yellow stripe (maybe black and yellow pinstripes?), the main body otherwise being black, with white letters marking the railroad's initials (in this case, BNNSSF).

[Engineer James]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO......


why don't they leave the existing paint scheme on the SF equipment, and paint all the BN stuff with the new (if) scheme, whatever it maybe.... or you know, they might just paint all the locos black for NS, or leave them their origional colors.......

[Komachi]

I see you're using my colors and fonts against me...


It comes down to one word...

Conformity.

Or...

Uniformity.


Not only does it keep the corporate identity continuous, it also makes it easier when making repairs, as the same paint job uses the same templates for painting and/or uniformity when swapping body parts. This is where another word, "Economics" comes into play.

The only time there would be different paint jobs on a locomotive (or rolling stock for that matter) are...

- Freight scheme
- Passenger scheme
- MOW scheme
- "Heritage" scheme


A paint scheme = PR/advertising for your railroad, bold colors and eye catching paint schemes get you noticed. The warbonnet was definately an eye catcher and the bright colors (red and yellow) on the neutral grey (or silver) made a bold statement for the Santa Fe. The more sedate, dark red and green with the various pin-stripe applications gave the Pennsylvania a more refined and dignified aura.

What image do you want to project to the public about your railroad? NS (like the Penn Central and Illinois Central) with its basic black scheme and white printing has a utilitarian look that shows that the railroad is a no-nonsense railroad that has a job to do. UP and BNSF both have bright and sharp colors (yellow and orange respectively) mixed with neutral colors (grey and black (although originally dark green)) which make the brighter colors "pop" more and grab your attention. They also give an agressive and cutting-edge image to each road.

The first thing I thought of (besides a long list of explatives) to describe that paint scheme was, "HEY! THE CIRCUS IS IN TOWN!!!!!!!!!" I don't think that's the kind of image you want the public to associate with your railroad...


Unless you specialized in hauling the Barnum & Bailey and Ringling Bros. Circus trains around the country.