Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

[mtuandrew]

You could also offer a much higher grade of food that might start to better defray the cost of the diner. Perhaps a standard $29.99 meal with salad, hamburger or turkey sandwich, soda, and cheesecake, or $59.99 for prime rib, or $99.99 for lobster and/or steak. Heck why not a $199.99 option provided by a local restaurant and delivered via postmates for a bottle of bubbly and wagyu steak? The on-board costs are the same, and if it's pre-order, there is little spoliage of the expensive lobster.

I like this idea. I imagine most Amtrak chefs are capable of a fine meal given the time and space - some would enjoy the challenge if given the chance - but I doubt they could do justice to Wagyu beef and fresh lobster surf-and-turf in a Superliner at peak mealtime.

[David Benton]

I just looked up prices for a roomette on the Silver Star and the Silver Meteor for a date in March. The timetable says the Meteor has flexible dining service and the Star has only cafe car service. I priced NYP-MIA for same date both trains. The Meteor, with alleged dining service, was only about $12 more than the Star with buy your own in the cafe car service.

Is this a temporary lapse? Seems like the last time I looked the price difference was much more. I mean, however crummy Amtrak food is, $12 for probably 3 meals is less than you would spend in the cafe car.

What am I missing?

Probably in different fare "buckets".
Possibly, the Star sells out first, People going to Tampa , which would be a bus connection off the Meteor.??? Can't imagine the South Carolina stops in the middle of the night making much difference to sleeper
traffic.
It would be a bit like people sometimes finding Acela fares cheaper than regionals.

[Tadman]

There's no such thing as a free meal. You've prepaid for all of them when you book your sleeping car accomodation.

This idea keeps coming up on various boards: why can't they serve Acela First Class type meals in dining cars?

I've dined on Acela first class and it was nothing special. Certainly not anything more than airline domestic first class. Not bad, just totally forgettable and I'd rather go to Sbarro across from NYP.

As for why it can't work on LD trains, assuming it is both better and more costly, the Acela fares pay for all above rail costs while the Slepeer + diner do not even come close.

I don't think Acela 1 food is better than the diner on an LD anyway, although I haven't had diner food for a bit.

[exvalley]

I've dined on Acela first class and it was nothing special. Certainly not anything more than airline domestic first class.

The presentation on the Acela is certainly better than what is offered with Flexible Dining. I'd argue that the food is slightly better too.

One good thing about the diner being restored to the Silver Star is that it runs counter to the argument that Anderson is looking to eliminate all of the long distance trains. Let's also remember that the new bedding is coming soon.

I see Flexible Dining as a work in progress. They have made some improvements and I expect that more will come. Anderson seems to understand that customer satisfaction means something - at least if Delta's performance in airline surveys is any indicator. Anderson also seems to be very good at gauging what customers will tolerate and what they won't.

[David Benton]

If nothing else , you would think using Acela meals on the Eastern long distance would net an economy of scale. Already been delivered to the NEC endpoints, the additional cost of loading them on the LD trains would be lower.

[gokeefe]

You could also offer a much higher grade of food that might start to better defray the cost of the diner. Perhaps a standard $29.99 meal with salad, hamburger or turkey sandwich, soda, and cheesecake, or $59.99 for prime rib, or $99.99 for lobster and/or steak. Heck why not a $199.99 option provided by a local restaurant and delivered via postmates for a bottle of bubbly and wagyu steak? The on-board costs are the same, and if it's pre-order, there is little spoliage of the expensive lobster.

I remain very much in favor of the "sock it to 'em" option. I truly believe people would pay for the meal if offerred the opportunity to do so. It's a premium experience and understandably would have a premium price.

[Tadman]

I see Flexible Dining as a work in progress. They have made some improvements and I expect that more will come. Anderson seems to understand that customer satisfaction means something - at least if Delta's performance in airline surveys is any indicator. Anderson also seems to be very good at gauging what customers will tolerate and what they won't.

I agree and sincerely hope this is the case. SImilar to the argument I made about PV operation in another thread. If he wanted to stop diners or PV's, he would have done it a year ago.

If nothing else , you would think using Acela meals on the Eastern long distance would net an economy of scale. Already been delivered to the NEC endpoints, the additional cost of loading them on the LD trains would be lower.

There's a lot to this idea. You could quadruple the Acela 1 food order overnight, probably bring your costs down 30-40 percent.

I remain very much in favor of the "sock it to 'em" option. I truly believe people would pay for the meal if offerred the opportunity to do so. It's a premium experience and understandably would have a premium price.

Me too. I think the concept of sleeper travel has changed a lot in the last 20 years and perhaps people who have $1000 to travel as a couple (one way no less) will buy a decent dinner. Especially on the western trains. You can't eat cafe food for 48 hours straight.

[Tadman]

Here's an idea unrelated to immediate discussion but related to improving food service numbers:

We've all accepted the fact here that nobody is super-excited about sitting with strangers in the full service diner. Some like it, but nobody would complain about a private dining option.

How about re-arranging the diner so that instead of having (8) 4-man booths with 2 facing 2, at least one side has 8 rows of benches,with a table and divider, all facing the same direction, so now you have (8) 2-man booths on one side all facing the same way? Couples could dine privately.

If the above suggestion of pay to eat comes to fruition, it might bump numbers if people thought they could eat a bit more privately.

[ExCon90]

I'm sure I remember that the Empire State Express had a diner. or section of a diner, arranged with a banquette along the windows on each side, facing inwards, and tables for two, so that passengers sat next to each other, facing the aisle at a table for two, and nobody directly faced anybody else without the aisle in between; in other words, similar to what you find in many restaurants, where parties are seated quite close to each other on a banquette and nobody seems to mind. Maybe proximity isn't the problem as much as facing strangers at the same table. I think it was probably easier for waiters to serve the tables without reaching across anybody.

[Greg Moore]

Here's an idea unrelated to immediate discussion but related to improving food service numbers:

We've all accepted the fact here that nobody is super-excited about sitting with strangers in the full service diner. Some like it, but nobody would complain about a private dining option.

How about re-arranging the diner so that instead of having (8) 4-man booths with 2 facing 2, at least one side has 8 rows of benches,with a table and divider, all facing the same direction, so now you have (8) 2-man booths on one side all facing the same way? Couples could dine privately.

If the above suggestion of pay to eat comes to fruition, it might bump numbers if people thought they could eat a bit more privately.

Allow me to introduce myself, "nobody". Seriously, I am super-excited about meeting strangers. It's actually one of the things I looked forward to in the diner, especially both as a coach passenger (sorry, we're no longer good enough) or as sleeper passenger where meeting coach passengers meant a wider demographic to get to know.

That said, I can't imagine anyone enjoying sitting in a 2-person booth facing a divider. That's got to be one of the most boring and annoying setups I can imagine. If I want that much privacy I'll dine in my sleeper room (which has always been an option) where I can also face my companion, not sit next to them staring at essentially a blank wall.

[John_Perkowski]

Let me make this simple...

Amtrak wants me to pay $500 per person per night for a Compartment (...errrrrr... Superliner Bedroom), at 42 sq ft.

For that price I expect chef prepared meals with farm to table ingredients, a damn good wine with dinner and brandy afterward.

[lordsigma12345]

Let me make this simple...

Amtrak wants me to pay $500 per person per night for a Compartment (...errrrrr... Superliner Bedroom), at 42 sq ft.

For that price I expect chef prepared meals with farm to table ingredients, a damn good wine with dinner and brandy afterward.

The pricey Chief. I am riding it in the summer and it is a doozy.

[gokeefe]

Let me make this simple...

Amtrak wants me to pay $500 per person per night for a Compartment (...errrrrr... Superliner Bedroom), at 42 sq ft.

For that price I expect chef prepared meals with farm to table ingredients, a damn good wine with dinner and brandy afterward.

According to this website it's about right.

In 2019 dollars you would have paid about $1073.13 on the Santa Fe Super Chief for their "One-Price Breakaway" Plan of 1967. This figure is the "First Class" LA to Chicago fare ($235.90) adjusted for inflation ($2,146.25) and then divided in half to approximate one way travel.

I would note that the "One-Price Breakaway" Plan was an "off season" promotion constituting a 20% discount over regular prices.

[John_Perkowski]

Mr O Keefe,

That 20% discount would easily pay my beverage bill...

AND THE TRAIN WOULD BE FASTER (40 hr 30 min)
And the first class passengers had the Pleasure Dome Lounge.
And the Fred Harvey food would be damn close to farm to table.

Amtrak fails.

[SouthernRailway]

Didn't Amtrak learn the benefits of market differentiation through its Silver Starve experiment?

Low cost sleeper services attracted a lot of customers.

But normal-cost sleeper services also generate significant revenues.

So LD trains should have a range of classes of services, to attract the most customers and revenues:

1. Budget sleeper (no meals included)
2. Normal sleeper (regular meals included)
3. Fancy sleeper (lavish meals and drinks included)

And with some marketing, even more people would ride.