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  • Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1520141  by west point
 
It may be that Amtrak can plan to add a lounge / café car to trips that have a high booking ? The Meteor, and Star year around or at least the thanksgiving - New Years time when there is often 5 coaches and 3 0 4 sleepers. If the ATL situation can ever be solved maybe one car NYP - ATL ? Once enough equipment is found it may be a second diner will be needed. It will be interesting how many coach passengers pay for meals.
 #1520147  by Rockingham Racer
 
The Panorama cars used on the Canadian and Skeena would work, with some modifications, especially stronger A/C.
This, assuming there's money to acquire them, of course. And then there's this problem: the scenery pretty much stinks east of the Rockies! :-)
 #1520148  by mtuandrew
 
Rockingham Racer wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:37 pm The Panorama cars used on the Canadian and Skeena would work, with some modifications, especially stronger A/C.
This, assuming there's money to acquire them, of course. And then there's this problem: the scenery pretty much stinks east of the Rockies! :-)
The New River Gorge and Lake Champlain beg to differ :P

I know I said it was time for Amtrak to consider having only one food service car, and in practical terms I agree with that - today’s shorter (8 or fewer) car eastern long-distance trains haven’t needed more than that. In somewhat of a fantasy though, I’d love to see an articulated diner-cafe-lounge for eastern single-level trains. On heavily-patronized eastern LDs (picturing 10+ car Silvers, which could easily be the norm with service improvements), one car isn’t enough. I feel like one and a half cars would be enough, and that there isn’t a practical need for a full diner and full cafe in the short-term future.
 #1520202  by Tadman
 
bretton88 wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:08 pm
Many european trains have operated with combined diner/cafe setups for a long time. Usually they're called "bistro cars." So I don't think it will be as bad as you fear. Even the Czechs who have some of the best diner cars in the continent are transforming their diners into Bistros. My guess is once they combine the food service cars, the "exclusive sleeper lounge" will become a general seating area for everyone, though Amtrak hints at possibly a complete interior redesign of the cars, so maybe it will become something completely different.
This. Most of the top regular trains in the EU and UK have one food car. It's kind of like an American diner car with a take-out window at the kitchen end of the car. It's an ok idea, but the line can get long and obnoxious. I bring food aboard sometimes if I'm not ticketed in first, because the line might be long and the food can be good, but not amazing.
 #1520203  by Tadman
 
My comments on food being good and not amazing bring up an important point: how much do you want food supplied on board? A lot of us assume that means the food quality is the same across all trains and perception is the same across all passengers.

There is certainly a hierarchy of food, and it's somewhat subjective:

In chicago it might go like this, and this is a bit simplified.
Alinea/Next (very high end and trendy)
Chicago Cut (standby expensive steakhouse)
Gene & Georgettis (famous old spot, paying for some name here unless you're a regular)
The Gage or Remingtons (nice place, good for quick bite before a show)
Miller's Pub (Old standby solid place, good value)
Bennigans or Applebees (fast casual)
Popeyes, McDonalds
7-11/gas station food

Where does Amtrak food sit on this? I would suggest the cafe cars are 7-11 and the full diners are maybe Applebees. This is in comparison to food quality only. Regarding price, the cafes are like Applebees and the full dining is like Remingtons.

This is why I am not ashamed to carry on and suggest it. I would much rather have some Popeyes (or La Pita in Detroit - so good!) than the $7 nuclear waste lava-hot cheeseburger in a cafe car. Of course this doesn't work so well a day or two into a trip, but it's worth considering on your first day.

A few years back I ordered a steak sandwich from a top kitchen in Vancouver and at it on the Cascade back to Seattle. I probably cost me $30 but it was actually really good, far better than any steak they could ever offer.
 #1520241  by bostontrainguy
 
lordsigma12345 wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:20 am- their eventual goal is to move to a single food service car for the eastern trains - the introduction of the convection ovens to the viewliner diners is perhaps a precursor to this. Probably the diner galley preparing all meals with the seating reserved for sleeper passengers. Maybe they will reconfigure the galley with a counter setup on the end facing the coaches and a partition separating this area from the seating. I’m guessing That would probably mean coach passengers would have to eat at their seats.
I think you have to think outside of the box here a bit. Amtrak should seriously consider going back to the future and re-configuring some of the NYP clearance bilevel cars, like used on the ACES, and turn them into a multi-use dining/lounge car. You got a lot of room to place all sorts of different zones . . . a "dome" lounge on the top level with bar . . . a first class dining room downstairs with a kitchen or first class table seating at the sleeper end . . . . a coach class table section on the other end serving out of the lower level kitchen cafe style . . . lots of interesting possibilities.

This would be fun for any industrial designer to use his imagination and actually make Amtrak's wishes come true.

In the future Amtrak could design a purpose-built new bilevel Viewliner II just for this purpose.
ACX exterior.jpg
ACX exterior.jpg (43.52 KiB) Viewed 1010 times
ACX cafe2.jpg
ACX cafe2.jpg (22.85 KiB) Viewed 1010 times
ACX lounge.jpg
ACX lounge.jpg (18.55 KiB) Viewed 1010 times
Last edited by bostontrainguy on Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1520291  by gokeefe
 
I think it's important to note that the fundamental reason why Amtrak hasn't done these things yet is because they can't afford to.

They don't have enough passengers paying high enough fares to cover their costs. It's just that simple. Until that changes the very best hope for improvement in food quality will be reducing costs.

That's why I don't care if coach doesn't have their own lounge (this would have been an extraordinary luxury "back in the day"), and it also doesn't matter to me if table service goes away in favor of "flexible dining". At least there will still be meals onboard. It's not as if the train can stop at a station with a Harvey House while they take on coal and water.

Think about it this way ... If you're advocating in favor of all of these separate amenities for coach passengers and low fares for Sleeping car passengers there won't be any money leftover for better food by the time coach gets their soda in the cafe and Amtrak sells Bedrooms for $199 NYP-MIA.
 #1520595  by JoeG
 
There is a feature in the Washington Post today about Amtrak's elimination of diners on Eastern overnight trains. There's nothing in there that is news to us, but there are two interesting points. One, the claim is that Amtrak isn't eliminating dining cars, only kitchens. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is that only sleeper passengers get to go to the diner in the new system.

More unusual is Amtrak's novel claim that their new kitchenless dining system is actually preferred by millennials. I can't imagine how they came up with that.

Here's the link:
WaPo article on Amtrak Diners
 #1520615  by John_Perkowski
 
From WaPo, and almost certainly behind a paywall, “The End of an American Tradition, the-Amtrak Dining- Car”/
Fair Use Quote:

“That experience is about to change. Amtrak says it is reinventing its dining service on long-distance trains, killing the traditional dining car to create more “flexible” and “contemporary” dining options.

“The carrier says the change, starting this fall on the one-night routes east of the Mississippi River, is driven by the desire to save money and lure a younger generation of new riders — chiefly, millennials known to be always on the run, glued to their phones and not particularly keen on breaking bread with strangers at a communal table.”
 #1520628  by mtuandrew
 
As a millennial and an introvert, I don’t necessarily mind sharing space with a stranger, though it’s not my preference. I do that plenty at bars and coffee shops, on public transit and in ride-share cars, not to mention in apartment life. I may not be super conversational in person but will respond gracefully to people who aren’t overbearing - and I think that’s not a generational difference at all.

What I do mind is a reliance on expensive sit-down dinners. I personally love having made-to-order fresh food but understand that’s an extravagance, and that a majority of the food I consume (that I don’t make myself) will come par-cooked, heat-and-serve, or ready-to-eat. That’s okay with me, as long as the food isn’t full of preservatives or otherwise unhealthy or unappetizing. (Also not a generational difference.)

This brings me back to my point that the dining car would do better if it doesn’t try to deliver massive surf-and-turf dinners and lumberjacks’ breakfasts. Don’t get me wrong - I still would love a good order of Railroad French Toast and a decent small steak simply for nostalgia, but I’d rather see Amtrak deliver lots of good breakfast burritos and soup-and-salad dinners than a few top-quality three-course meals. The more people it moves through the dining car, the more money it makes and the less people complain about how stuffy & formal it is.

(Also, I’m gonna keep yelling about a decent coffee and a good cocktail before and after hours.)
 #1520629  by SouthernRailway
 
Great point.

I was looking (who knows why) at a Pennsylvania Railroad lounge car menu from the 1950s. It had a much wider drink lineup than Amtrak has, including Manhattans and martinis. Why can’t Amtrak have classier drinks?

Maybe it doesn’t have enough passengers paying high fares because the onboard experience (and the station experience) is not super-high class.

A Manhattan or martini in a nice lounge car would be very nice. A beer in an Amfleet 1970s high school cafeteria, which is what Amtrak’s cafe cars on Eastern LD trains, is not high class.
 #1520630  by mtuandrew
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:10 pm Great point.

I was looking (who knows why) at a Pennsylvania Railroad lounge car menu from the 1950s. It had a much wider drink lineup than Amtrak has, including Manhattans and martinis. Why can’t Amtrak have classier drinks?

Maybe it doesn’t have enough passengers paying high fares because the onboard experience (and the station experience) is not super-high class.

A Manhattan or martini in a nice lounge car would be very nice. A beer in an Amfleet 1970s high school cafeteria, which is what Amtrak’s cafe cars on Eastern LD trains, is not high class.
And the classier the drink, the more expensive. The more expensive, the fewer Amtrak will have to sell to break even. Also if it’s more expensive per drink, fewer drinks will be purchased (in theory), meaning fewer drunks to put off the train in West Bumblebutt, Iowa.

For the people who complain, “but the government is getting people drunk,” look at how many Army bases and government installations have banquet halls, lounges, and officers’ clubs run by the government rather than contractors.
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