Gilbert B Norman wrote:Messrs. O'Keefe and Stolberg; no wonder Marietta can be considered a railfan hot spot, as that is where the N,C, & StL (route of the Georgian and The Great Locomotive Chase and the line to Cincinnati (route of The Flamingo) converge. .Mr. Norman you have it slightly wrong. The NC&SL route from Chattanooga and the L&N mainline route from Cincinnati - Knoxville converge at Cartersville, Ga. Now L&N's old line ( hook and eye ) came thru Copperhill Tn. down to Marietta to join the NC&SL route. That route is now run by the Georgia Northeastern RR from Copperhill to Marietta.
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Stand corrected, Mr. East Point.
All I know is that Vinings is a hot spot, at which you can have a good pizza and take in the action from both lines.
All I know is that Vinings is a hot spot, at which you can have a good pizza and take in the action from both lines.
Gilbert B Norman wrote:Accordingly, I doubt if Yager (too lazy to find the ASCII code for "a" with dots on top) would be too receptive for proposals for any kind of passenger train on his rails, for we all know railroading is "precision"Waiting someone out on a multi-decade effort is not something that I see as insurmountable. Inconvenient? Perhaps. But not insurmountable.
Loss of rights of way, and/or a lack of public will? Might as well just walk away ...
gokeefe
6 years from the AJC editorial and absolutely nothing done. Now the POLs are trying to get someone to build in the downtown RR gulch. That might sink any future station in that location .
Although some signs are pointing to it being the most likely location for Amazon HQ2. Its not impossible that the Atlanta proposal includes some promises of intercity and commuter rail and Amazon's RFP suggests they would value being located on top of a station. Disclaimer: all speculation, yada yada
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/new ... j=79109761" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/new ... j=79109761" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Amazon would definitely be the sort of anchor tenant who'd insist that space be left for a train station if their site straddled a passenger rail line.
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
The possible Atlanta station location is getting snapped up.
https://atlanta.curbed.com/atlanta-deve ... lips-arena
https://atlanta.curbed.com/atlanta-deve ... lips-arena
Mr. Stolberg, it is widely circulated that mass transit availability is a factor in the selection process for the Amazon HQ2. While even though both Terminal and Union stations are gone, the rail infrastructure is intact. There must be visions within the passenger rail community of regional/commuter service extending outward on all the major "spokes" of the rail system that was developed before the Civil War and placed Atlanta on the map as a transportation center without being located along a navigable waterway (OK; kyaks on the Chattahoochee).
All that is well and good to dream of, and since this is the Amtrak Forum, let's throw in a state-funded Corridor or two.
Most immediate to a possible HQ2 is the absence of any MARTA rail into Cobb County. This is where the upwardly affluent fan base for the Braves is from, so they built their new stadium up there. Cobb is more than happy to build "Lexus Lanes" along 75 and 575, but I know one Lex, i.e. mine, that has seen Atlanta but not those Lanes. Needless to say, they have blocked any initiatives to have rail in their county, and that will be a negative to Amazon.
All that is well and good to dream of, and since this is the Amtrak Forum, let's throw in a state-funded Corridor or two.
Most immediate to a possible HQ2 is the absence of any MARTA rail into Cobb County. This is where the upwardly affluent fan base for the Braves is from, so they built their new stadium up there. Cobb is more than happy to build "Lexus Lanes" along 75 and 575, but I know one Lex, i.e. mine, that has seen Atlanta but not those Lanes. Needless to say, they have blocked any initiatives to have rail in their county, and that will be a negative to Amazon.
Gwinnett will vote on whether or not to join MARTA in March. No commuter rail extension is planned, but a short heavy rail extension is.
Part of Cobb is likely to eventually vote on joining, too. What they would build is not clear yet, but while Heavy rail is unlikely, commuter rail is a distinct possibility.
Clayton County has already joined MARTA and they are actively planning a commuter rail line to Lovejoy, and they have money to build it. Problem is, the line ends at East Point. This allows for a transfer to MARTA heavy rail, but East Point is not much of a destination itself.
So the prospects for commuter rail in Atlanta are better than they've ever been. While the 2013 plan for Downtown Atlanta was so pie-in-the-sky that it never had a chance, something right-sized and in the right place would clearly be a good thing.
On the other hand, read this article:
http://www.threadatl.org/2018/01/23/gul ... n-atlanta/
CIM Group, the developer for the Gulch, has planned a parking deck that will take up literally all the ground level space in the Gulch, leaving no space for tracks and platforms. Whether this is a serious proposal, or a strawman to get officials to cough up incentives, I can't say. Much of the negotiation for this is going on behind closed doors, so, who's to say.
Part of Cobb is likely to eventually vote on joining, too. What they would build is not clear yet, but while Heavy rail is unlikely, commuter rail is a distinct possibility.
Clayton County has already joined MARTA and they are actively planning a commuter rail line to Lovejoy, and they have money to build it. Problem is, the line ends at East Point. This allows for a transfer to MARTA heavy rail, but East Point is not much of a destination itself.
So the prospects for commuter rail in Atlanta are better than they've ever been. While the 2013 plan for Downtown Atlanta was so pie-in-the-sky that it never had a chance, something right-sized and in the right place would clearly be a good thing.
On the other hand, read this article:
http://www.threadatl.org/2018/01/23/gul ... n-atlanta/
CIM Group, the developer for the Gulch, has planned a parking deck that will take up literally all the ground level space in the Gulch, leaving no space for tracks and platforms. Whether this is a serious proposal, or a strawman to get officials to cough up incentives, I can't say. Much of the negotiation for this is going on behind closed doors, so, who's to say.
Attachments:
Is it really that bad? They don't directly build on the ROW. Will they leave room above?
"Trying to solve congestion by making roadways wider is like trying to solve obesity by buying bigger pants."--Charles Marohn
New anchor tenant could have the initials NS.
https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/off ... ulch-92624
Rail, rail, everywhere, and no place to board.
https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/off ... ulch-92624
Rail, rail, everywhere, and no place to board.
orulz wrote: So the prospects for commuter rail in Atlanta are better than they've ever been. While the 2013 plan for Downtown Atlanta was so pie-in-the-sky that it never had a chance, something right-sized and in the right place would clearly be a good thing.Ends at East Point.not likely. There is much local traffic past Ft. Gillem.. NS still runs trains on the old Cof Ga past Lovejoy and to Griffin eventually to Macon as reliever of the SOU RR more direct and faster route.
On the other hand, read this article:
http://www.threadatl.org/2018/01/23/gul ... n-atlanta/
Ther are problems of Atlanta getting commuter rail. If the gulch gets built on there is no location left close to connecting to MARTA except maybe Doraville and that may be gone as well. Unless track and platforms are laid out before building over the gulch that location will be lost forever.
The next problem is if a downtown location for a station is found close to MARTA the problem of Howell CP has to be mitigated. The present Daily delays for the Crescent at that location are unacceptable. It is a maxi Create type project in our opinion the only way to make it correct is to have the two CSX main lines tunnel under the NS (SOU RR ) lines. CSX not interested as they were there first so Atlanta & Georgia governments would have to pony up the billion + money +++.
Additional connections from CSX and NS from the north will be needed at Howell to enable full fluidity. There are 6 possible end points from the north and that cuts down to 4 at Howell. A maximum type ZOO with more connections from north are possible than the PRR ZOO. As well the 2 CSX and 2 NS main tracks south of Howell to downtown will have to become joint use age tracks with CPs to enable fluid operation.
Possible yes but not probable. Atlanta will become the comuter nightmare of the USA.
For those who want to see the layout of Howell go to the link and page down to Appendix "D" and dig in for some reading.
http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/ ... -26-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Rail/ ... -26-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Atlanta situation is a real money pit situation. Building a new station with 10 - 12 platform tracks is already a big problem.
To change the present Atlanta station from a 1 track platform to a 2 track 1 platform station exclusive from the NS freights. Or 3 track 2 platform station is possible if gobs of money is available.
1. Parking is not solvable as the nearest parking garage is 1/2 mile south of the station.
2. The present station actually spans 3 tracks now and has enough span to allow for 4 tracks.
HERE ARE THE STEPS TO ALLOW AN UPGRADED STATION AT THE PRESENT LOCATION.
3. Start construction a new station about 100 -150 feet southwest of the present station. Build it spanning all 4 of the present and future tracks.
4. 4 Tracks will require a new 2 track RR bridge over I-75 Probably 2 single track bridges. Possible Ga DOT will want new bridges for wider span over I-75 and would pay for RR bridges ?
5. New track to the NW will interfere with present baggage and passenger elevator that now operates at station so new station will need to be put in service first before track put in NS service.
6. New track siding "B" to SE will connect to present Atlantic steel spur track under present station parallel to present main tracks . Will include enough space from present main track ( future siding "A" ) for a platform. Will proceed over I-75 far enough for balloon track to join.
7. Build balloon track off siding "B" back to "B" May use steel spur bridge over I-75 interchange.
8. Demolish present station building to allow Main track 4 completion to NW and provide some more station auto parking.
You then have 2 NS main tracks separate from station with ability to use present SE main track as a 3rd passenger track for the station. Still not enough station tracks but somewhat better than now. At least switching could proceed unimpeded and NS freight trains would not need to remain outside of present station whenever passenger train is due at station.
As previously noted above just needs gobs of money.
To change the present Atlanta station from a 1 track platform to a 2 track 1 platform station exclusive from the NS freights. Or 3 track 2 platform station is possible if gobs of money is available.
1. Parking is not solvable as the nearest parking garage is 1/2 mile south of the station.
2. The present station actually spans 3 tracks now and has enough span to allow for 4 tracks.
HERE ARE THE STEPS TO ALLOW AN UPGRADED STATION AT THE PRESENT LOCATION.
3. Start construction a new station about 100 -150 feet southwest of the present station. Build it spanning all 4 of the present and future tracks.
4. 4 Tracks will require a new 2 track RR bridge over I-75 Probably 2 single track bridges. Possible Ga DOT will want new bridges for wider span over I-75 and would pay for RR bridges ?
5. New track to the NW will interfere with present baggage and passenger elevator that now operates at station so new station will need to be put in service first before track put in NS service.
6. New track siding "B" to SE will connect to present Atlantic steel spur track under present station parallel to present main tracks . Will include enough space from present main track ( future siding "A" ) for a platform. Will proceed over I-75 far enough for balloon track to join.
7. Build balloon track off siding "B" back to "B" May use steel spur bridge over I-75 interchange.
8. Demolish present station building to allow Main track 4 completion to NW and provide some more station auto parking.
You then have 2 NS main tracks separate from station with ability to use present SE main track as a 3rd passenger track for the station. Still not enough station tracks but somewhat better than now. At least switching could proceed unimpeded and NS freight trains would not need to remain outside of present station whenever passenger train is due at station.
As previously noted above just needs gobs of money.
West Point: I see your design and raise you this:
8ABFA3B4-AD66-4650-B7B1-CC778D96BFE2.jpeg (377.47 KiB) Viewed 1960 times
Meet Atlanta Peachtree/Atlantic Station. Four tracks (two through, two stub), three island platforms, and a short wye for a locomotive and a single car. (Full consists would need to reverse elsewhere.) It requires a new bridge (marked in green) over I-75 which would carry two new through tracks (B and C) as well as a new 800’ platform. If able to be reused, the Atlantic Steel Spur bridge would access Track D (stub end from the northeast) and the wye. Track A is stub end from the southwest, but if funding permits it could also be extended over I-75. If needed and agreed with Norfolk Southern, Amtrak could also add a platform on the northbound NS main.
The purple area is a parking garage, usable by both Amtrak and the Atlantic Station Mall, and the red box is the station headhouse located over the tracks. The reason I’m calling it Peachtree/Atlantic is because I envision a public pedestrian walkway from the old Peachtree station across the highway, elevated above the new Track B/C bridge.
Yes it’s small, and yes it needs car storage elsewhere, but it provides just a little room to grow Amtrak ops.
The purple area is a parking garage, usable by both Amtrak and the Atlantic Station Mall, and the red box is the station headhouse located over the tracks. The reason I’m calling it Peachtree/Atlantic is because I envision a public pedestrian walkway from the old Peachtree station across the highway, elevated above the new Track B/C bridge.
Yes it’s small, and yes it needs car storage elsewhere, but it provides just a little room to grow Amtrak ops.