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  • Amtrak 5 incident near Reno NV (CZ California Zephyr)

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #947301  by SooLineRob
 
Jersey_Mike wrote: Do you honestly think that the current regulations on driver rest, qualifications and hours of service are well enforced?
I'm not familiar with the reporting requirements for commercial drivers, so I can't comment.

I do believe drivers caught "fudging the books" are dealt with according to the prescribed methods of enforcement...
 #947310  by 3rdrail
 
afiggatt wrote: But it is not a big corporation operation with deep pockets either.
It may be an affiliate of one that is. Don't let the "mom and pop" advertising convince you.
 #947315  by carajul
 
There is no way the trucking co has sufficient liability insr to cover this accident. I'm surprised UP and ATK have not been named as co-defendants in any lawsuit yet. I can just see the trial lawyers claims now "because UP made the decision to put their tracks there, they are at fault too". They probably have the standard $1,000,000 liability most businesses have. They'll probably file bk and the judge will force them to sell off their assets to make restitution.

The corporate veil cannot be pierced because of an accident... in fact I think the courts in NV have only pierced the corp veil of a Nevada corporation once in the past 40 years.

I can only assume the driver was not paying attention if he was not asleep, which I guess he wasn't since he tried to stop last minute. Probably cell phone / texting.

I was just rear ended yesterday at a red light by some stupid woman texting on her phone. And to top it off she had no car insurance. Thank goodness damage is not that bad. But distractions in the vehicle are getting rediculous.
 #947326  by Silverliner II
 
SooLineRob wrote:
Jersey_Mike wrote:
Even more, just wait ... if they discover this truck driver was on his cellphone, or texting, or otherwise distracted ... what happened to the rail industry after Chatsworth will happen to the CDL drivers too.
Doubt it, the truck industry has an effective lobby.
Jersey Mike,

Do you really think the trucking industry will be able to stop any legislation prohibiting the use of electronic devices by commercial drivers while operating a vehicle?!?!? How would the American Trucking Associations convince the public that preventing distracted drivers is a bad idea?

The safety of the public will prevail over any industry lobby. Period.
A few states already prohibit driving while using cell phones without hands-free devices, period. If Nevada is not one of them, then this may give that state impetus to enact such a law if distracted driving proves to be a factor in the end. And just to mention, I am aware that in various places, individual municipalities have enacted similar laws, but they are unenforceable in court due to only the state legislatures having the right to enact motor vehicle laws (except perhaps in Texas, which has their own regulations when it comes to motor vehicle lawmaking, it seems).
 #947470  by Greg Moore
 
carajul wrote: The corporate veil cannot be pierced because of an accident... in fact I think the courts in NV have only pierced the corp veil of a Nevada corporation once in the past 40 years.
To be clear, I was not suggesting the corporate veil could be pierced simply because of the accident. You're right, that won't happen.

However, if the corporation is proven to have knowingly not had insurance and did so deliberately to save money and just crossed their fingers and ran their trucks in a known illegal condition, then they might be in trouble. It's a pretty high bar and at this time, lots of speculation.

Regardless, tragic.
 #947514  by MBTA1016
 
Zanperk wrote:If the fuel tank(s) were compromised it was a Class B (flammable liquid) fire. Diesel is not water soluble and has a lower specific gravity i.e. it floats. Hitting it with water will cause the fuel and flames to spread.

I'd bet the location and long response times were a factor in the cars becoming fully involved and burning for hours. The local FD shows up and realizes it is going to take foam and specialized equipment to knock it down. Which has to come from even further away.....

Look closely at the pics and video -- the silver firemen are in aviation turnout gear. Likely from the nearest major airport or military air base. There was plenty of time and fuel (including all that foam and plastic) for the steel to reach its critical temperature.
Fallon is the closet city nearby with an airport so that would explain the aviation turnout gear
 #947518  by MBTA1016
 
Jeff Smith wrote:
Stampede98371 wrote:I was in the 3rd superliner of this train.
Stampede, welcome to the board, and thank you for sharing your story. I am glad you are okay.
Hopefully your ok after everything that happened
 #949992  by Jeff Smith
 
First, I'd like to thank everyone for their restraint in posting to this thread, as we requested early on. I'm glad that such a tragedy has turned into a reasonable discussion of the issues. I know it was tense the first few days, and appreciate everyone understanding as we moderated the thread.

Now, some news updates:

First victim identified (an Amtrak Conductor). Heartfelt sympathies to her family and those who knew her.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1K30OU.DTL
RENO -- Some called Laurette Lee the "Iron Maiden." Even at the age of 68, she would often climb out of the trains she conducted, sledgehammer in hand, to smash the ice off frozen switches.

"She'd just bang on that switch until it came unstuck," said Dorrie Crooks, a volunteer at the California State Railroad Museum who often rode with Lee. "She was just incredibly strong."

Lee, who lived in Concord until a move to South Lake Tahoe two years ago, was the first person to be identified as a victim of Friday's fiery collision in the Nevada desert, where a tractor-trailer barreled through safety gates and rammed her Amtrak train.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1RYIClmG4
 #949994  by Jeff Smith
 
Report an an injured Amtrak employee. Our best wishes for a speedy recovery and hope that fellow employees will provide comfort and appropriate personnel will provide the assistance and counseling needed.

http://elkgrove.patch.com/articles/elk- ... trak-crash
An Elk Grove man was among those injured in a fiery Amtrak train crash in Nevada Friday.

Elk Grove resident Richard D’Alessandro, 49, was identified by United Transportation Union officials as an assistant conductor on the westbound California Zephyr that went up in flames after a tractor-trailer rig plowed into it at a rail crossing.

Family members told KCRA D'Alessandro suffered moderate injuries, almost losing a finger, and was hoping to be released from a Reno-area hospital in the next few days.
 #949996  by Jeff Smith
 
Regarding passenger accountability:
SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- KCRA 3 has obtained reports that indicate Amtrak opted out of safety improvements that would have aided emergency responders in the deadly Amtrak crash Friday, outside of Reno, NV.
Three days after the accident, investigators still can’t find two passengers, and Amtrak can’t say those passengers were definitely on board because of deficiencies in their passenger accounting system.
KCRA 3 has uncovered a 2002 National Transportation Safety Board report which recommended Amtrak improve its passenger accountability procedures.
The 2002 report was in response to a similar deadly Amtrak accident in Crescent City, FL.
“In an airplane accident we have much better records about who was on the airplane,” said NTSB Spokesman Earl Weener. “In this particular case, those records are not available. The board has had a recommendation for that for some time now.”

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/28377964/detai ... z1RYKUQnQg
 #950000  by Jeff Smith
 
General crash update: fatalaties at six; truck driver had three speeding tickets in Cali, firm had safety lapses, last victim unidentified.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 1931.story
Valli had gotten three speeding tickets in California over the last four years, and was arrested in Nevada in 2007 for skipping a court date after letting his vehicle registration expire, records revealed.

Federal records show the Nevada Department of Public Safety has cited Valli's employer, John Davis Trucking Co. of Battle Mountain, for crashes, unsafe driving, and operating a truck with tire treads so exposed that it had to be taken off the road.
 #950003  by Jeff Smith
 
Again, many thanks to those posting here for keeping the topic in the correct perspective. Let's keep it that way as we discuss the latest developments.

Jeff
 #950068  by Kilgore Trout
 
Jeff Smith wrote:Regarding passenger accountability:
SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- KCRA 3 has obtained reports that indicate Amtrak opted out of safety improvements that would have aided emergency responders in the deadly Amtrak crash Friday, outside of Reno, NV.
Three days after the accident, investigators still can’t find two passengers, and Amtrak can’t say those passengers were definitely on board because of deficiencies in their passenger accounting system.
KCRA 3 has uncovered a 2002 National Transportation Safety Board report which recommended Amtrak improve its passenger accountability procedures.
The 2002 report was in response to a similar deadly Amtrak accident in Crescent City, FL.
“In an airplane accident we have much better records about who was on the airplane,” said NTSB Spokesman Earl Weener. “In this particular case, those records are not available. The board has had a recommendation for that for some time now.”

Read more: http://www.kcra.com/news/28377964/detai ... z1RYKUQnQg
Wasn't there talk not too long ago of Amtrak trialing electronic ticket scanners for conductors that could communicate with Arrow? I wonder if this incident might provide some additional impetus for that program.
 #950132  by jobtraklite
 
Silverliner II wrote:I thought the long distance train crews had passenger manifests. Or was it just the sleeper attendants...
But isn't the manifest simply a list of people with reservations not canceled as of the time it was printed? The question would seem to be who was actually on the train.

I can picture the conductor matching collected tickets to the manifest and drawing a line threw the names with tickets.
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