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  • Train to the Delaware State Fair

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #37732  by chuchubob
 
Amtrak runs a special train to the Delaware State Fair from 30th Street Station every year. I went to South Street Bridge to photograph it on Saturday. It was about 15 minutes late, having been held for Metroliner #203.

http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/album57/04_07_24_03

The special came out immediately, and while it was waiting for a signal to follow #203, the northbound Vermonter came past.

http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/album57/04_07_24_04

The special was pulled by P42 #4...

http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/album57/04_07_24_05

http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/album57/04_07_24_06

and pushed by P42 #45.

http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/album57/04_07_24_07

http://www.subwayspot.com/gallery/album57/04_07_24_08

Bob

 #37742  by queenlnr8
 
COOL! I didn't know that Amtrak did that.

Thanks for the pictures.
 #37876  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Thank you, Mr. Vogel, for sharing your great collection of photos of the Delaware State Fair Special.

These Specials have been run in years past. Every time I learn of one being run, it brings back memories of "one that got away". I commented at the previous Forum on another "one that got away", namely a "bumper to bumper to bumper" ride on the Nickel Plate-Erie Lackawanna at Xmas 1961. This was account an "almost but not quite connection" between my future employer, the MILW, and the NKP.

The link is courtesy of archive dot org.

http://web.archive.org/web/200203010000 ... opicID=409

However, to have ridden the Seaford-Wilmington Blue Diamond was very much WITHIN my control. From Nov 1965 to June 1967, I was in the Air force and stationed at Dover AFB. I must sadly note that the mission of the 436th Mortuary Squadron @ Dover's then was same as today. Nevertheless, even though we often had to work 12 hour shifts, we still got our 72 hour breaks. Well the State supported PRR "Blue Diamond" comprised of a GP-7 and 2 "nicely but still on the cheap" rebuilt P-70 heavyweight Coaches was always the "I'll do it next break' adventure.

'Ill do it next break"; "I'll do it next break".

Then suddenly March 1966 comes around and the Blue Diamond had become "Blue Dust'. the P-70 coaches finished out their days assigned to the Buffalo-Harrisburg-Baltimore "Northern Express" routed via the Northern Central through the home of air-conditioners and mint patties @ York, PA.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 #38800  by trainhq
 
I wouldn't say that train service to Dover will never be seen again. There
has been interest in recent months by Delaware DOT to begin working on commuter service to Dover from Philadelphia. I'd rate the chances as good that it will be revived within the next few years. The ridership numbers certainly look high enough to justifyit.
 #38810  by jp1822
 
Have also seen some info on potential installation of commuter service from Philly to Dover. They just got done completing a new expressway from I-95 to Dover (Route 1), and the traffic is still bad. There is coordinated bus service with Amtrak trains on the Delmarva Pennisula. Would love to see train service return to the Delmarva - mostly for personal reasons as I have a vacation house down there and would much rather take the train than drive!!!
 #38846  by Peter E
 
I travel to Dover at least twice a year on business and on my last trek over the bay I saw that the renovations to the Dover stations were just about complete. I understand from my folks in Dover that Delaware First State, SEPTA and NS are talking about the Dover-Philly commuter service. Earliest date I've heard for statrt up is 2007.

Currently, SEPTA operates commuter service from Newark via Wilmington to 30th Street under contract. Its proven to be quite popular and growing. Expanding to Dover would be a logical move with Salisbury MD in the future.
 #38960  by jp1822
 
Feel compelled to expand this topic just a bit - I have a vacation house on the Lower Eastern Shore of MD. When down there I visit and dine with some local friends in the Ocean City, Assateague, Salisbury, Crisfield and Princess Anne. Not one person that I have met in my vacations down there enjoys the car ride from the Lower Eastern Shore of MD to Philly or New York (including myself) any more. The expansion efforts completed on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge has opened up this corridor on the Delmarva tremendously. And yes, the "Delmarvans" do drive to the big cities down there - most commuting to as far as Dover and Wilmington!

It used to be a beautiful drive on Route 13 from the Delaware Memorial Bridge to Salisbury. But it has just gotten so choked up with development along the Route 13 right-of-way (leading to traffic), and the Route 1 (aka relief route) creates bottlenecks quite often. But a commuter/train service from Wilmington to Dover will only work if its competitive with driving. Granted the population south of Dover is less than north of Dover, but extension to Salisbury (ever expanding at a gradual pace) I could certainly forsee (with bus connection to Ocean City).
 #39056  by Gilbert B Norman
 
I have long contended here that multi-state regional authorities "just don't work out". I have wondered if the Blue Diamond that I noted above might have hung on a bit longer (at least until my Tour at Dover was over during June '67) had it served Salisbury instead of just terminating at Delaware's end of track at Seaford (I THINK it actually ran deadhead to Salisbury).

However, we must be mindful that there is no reasonable and practical way to have rail transportation between "the District" and "The District-by-theSea" (Ocean City). However, Rehoboth I'm pretty sure remains "Philly-by-the -Sea', so there is some possibility that trade could be served by a resumed service.

Oh and lastly, "off rails' but "back in my day" around those parts, there was only a single (South) span of the Bay Bridge. During weekends, the span would be "one wayed" Eastward Fri, Westward Sun. That was fun, especially when once on Government business, I had to travel Westward to DC on a Friday evening!!!!!!!!
 #39160  by Peter E
 
Gilbert

I think you are being overly harsh with regards to multi state agencies not working. Port Authoriy between NJ and NY has done wonders with the old H&M, which was on the verge of collapse when it took over in 1962. The system has been rebuilt and is now on its 4rd generation of rolling stock. By the same token the Delaware Bridge Authority operates the highly succesful PATCO service. Mutli state authorities also operate a number of airports including the one for Cincinnati, which is located in KY.

More than likely the operation of said service will be by contract to SEPTA since they already have the Newark run. The State of Delaware may find it more advantagous to purchase or lease the equipment, but have it serviced and operated by the larger agency.
 #39182  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Eldridge--

Without us straying too far off-topic, lets consider that the ONLY reason the PANYNJ is in the railroad business was to obtain the WTC site and the legislative fiat, including the authority to extend IRS Section 103 (with respect to exclusion of Federal Tax on interest paid) to develop it for commercial use. If that site was strictly to be used to build a new Hudson Terminal and otherwise bail out the H&M/PATH, they would have not touched it with a ten foot pole.

After all, consider how much Mr. Silverstein paid to lease the site and its buildings. Look at how hard he is fighting for the commercial interests, as distinct from the Memorial interests (no editorial comments I MEAN IT), of the site.

I think anyone here would agree that, when it became inevitable that Public funding must be on the table for rail commuter service, the most economic and efficient way to address the problem in New York would be a Tri-State agency. Was such ever considered? you bet it was. How far did the idea sail? well, why have you got three states, three agencies, three distinct commuter railroads.

That I have consistently opposed at any of the boards at which I participate, the "regionalization" of the NE Corridor, is simply based upon, that, politics being politics, there are considered problems in getting two or more states to come together as evidenced to the New York example that unfolded during the "late fifties" (fish out your New York Times from that era to review what I'm talking about; failing that take my word)..

I can't speak for the other multi state agencies you note, and possibly because this would not likely be an operation with more that two trains Daily, your comments bear more merit than do mine, but I believe I can speak regarding the WTC and the lack of success regarding establishing a TRi-State NY rail commuter authority.

Respectfully

GBN
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Thu Jul 29, 2004 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #39193  by trainhq
 
I don't think SEPTA would run a Dover commuter rail service, if their
recent performance with regard to Schuylkill Valley Metro is any indication.
SEPTA runs EMUS, and has consistently avoided any expansion involving
Diesel powered trains. I don't see any reason for them to be any more
enthusiastic about them here than they were on the Reading line, especially since the trains would run mostly in another state. Plus, I'm
not sure Delaware DOT really would want SEPTA to run the trains anyway
even if they asked to, not with the kind of service problems that have
plagued SEPTA. I think they'd just as soon contract the operations out
to a private firm that specializes in running diesel powered trains, as
the MBTA has.
 #39341  by jp1822
 
Might be best to have it Amtrak do it - since Delaware doesn't really have an extensive passenger train network. Amtrak's got the P40s in storage and the Clockers are due to be transferred to NJT freeing up Amfleets.
 #39426  by Peter E
 
Right now SEPTA would be the logical chose to run these trains since they are already operating the Newark service. They have established running rights on the NEC and the expertise. Delaware First State is primarily a bus operation with services in all three counties of the State. Therefore, in the name of expepediency SEPTA would most likely win out. Amtrak--maybe, but given the current situation I don't know if they would want to assume the operation.

Mr. Norman

With regards to the creation of the PATH I agree one of the aims was to aquire the property of what was once the imfamous "Radio Row" later the WTC. Still the H&M was a valuble assest in its own right and with the adoption of the Adene Plan in 1967 even more so since it increased traffic at Newark's Penn Station which became the focal point. To develop any property on the scale of the WTC the added bonus of a rail rapid transit system only made the property all that more valuable. Even in the 1960's planners with any sense of vision recognized that while it would never make a dime the former H&M was a god sent for moving bodies in and out of WTC.

Still, its easy to look back on the 40 odd years since the Port Authority was created and say what should of happened. Yes, Conn. should have joined, but given the State's financial situation circa 1960 I doubt it would have.
 #150409  by chuchubob
 
This is an annual event: chartered Amtrak train from 30th Street Station to Wilmington, then off the NEC to the fair.

P42 #186 was on the south end

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_07_23_06

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_07_23_07

and 167 was on the north end.

http://www.transitspot.com/gallery/Bobs ... 5_07_23_08

photographed at South Street Bridge, Philadelphia, at 9:12 AM Saturday july 23.

Bob