Amtrak HHP-8 Discussion: Use, Reliability, Disposition

[STrRedWolf]

MARC is rehabbing their 6 HHP-8s and would rather buy more diesels to replace them. They replaced their AEM-7s with Siemens Chargers.

Yes but and a very big but. Use of diesels on the NEC will require two diesels to maintain MARC speeds of up to 125 MPH. MARC is the fastest commuter rail in the USA. One diesel is not enough HP to maintain that speed that Amtrak requires on the NEC. MARC could get by with just one diesel if they would build 4 main tracks on the NEC from WASH to Perry. That way slower and many stop MARC trains could stay on outer tracks not interfering with AMTRAK HSR trains.

They would still keep some electrics for express service, and rebuild Odenton and BWI to allow for express service... but then they’d also extend it out to Wilmington too. That’s a few other threads.

[ApproachMedium]

Its all a load of balloney because the 90mph diesels are hauling the 125mph cars and any time the 125mph cars have a 125mph diesel there is a lower speed car put in the consist knocking it down to 110 or 90.

Whoever is figuring out marc has no idea what they are doing, other than that they need two diesels to keep schedules with longer consists and that diesels are junk and they need electrics because they are STILL leasing ACS-64s even with the additional HHPs that have been rehabbed.

[STrRedWolf]

Its all a load of balloney because the 90mph diesels are hauling the 125mph cars and any time the 125mph cars have a 125mph diesel there is a lower speed car put in the consist knocking it down to 110 or 90.

Whoever is figuring out marc has no idea what they are doing, other than that they need two diesels to keep schedules with longer consists and that diesels are junk and they need electrics because they are STILL leasing ACS-64s even with the additional HHPs that have been rehabbed.

Mmmmm yeah. Here’s the thing with MARC — they essentially have two types of diesels, the MP-36 and Siemens Chargers (they have GP-39’s that are rare). The MP-36’s can’t haul a full 6-car double-decker consist without doubling up, and even then max out at 100 MPH. The Chargers can do it with one and hit it at speed.

They have 8 Chargers. They have 26 MP-36’s. They have 6 HHP-8’s. They have three train lines, but only one of them is electrified, and none are owned by them (except for a branch line). Oh, and did I mention that MARC’s parent, MTA Maryland, constantly gets underfunded? There’s a bill going through the MD General Assembly to require MTA to be funded by at least $500 Mil a year, which is $110 over what they’re getting now.

MARC not knowing what they’re doing? If you’re making that assertion without context, you’re just fooling yourself.

[gokeefe]

I do think if they're leasing ACS-64s and running diesels on the Penn Line then they are clearly the obvious choice for Amtrak's HHP-8s (after rebuild of course). It seems absurd for MARC to turn down the opportunity to pickup cheap electric power that gives them cost savings and allows them to reduce costs of leased electric power.

If money really is a problem then more HHP-8s should fit into the budget without difficulty.

[Backshophoss]

The Hippo's are now part oi a legal action between the lease holder(PM) and Amtrak over missing parts
That will take time to settle
MARC doesn't have their own shop with wire access

[mtuandrew]

I do think if they're leasing ACS-64s and running diesels on the Penn Line then they are clearly the obvious choice for Amtrak's HHP-8s (after rebuild of course). It seems absurd for MARC to turn down the opportunity to pickup cheap electric power that gives them cost savings and allows them to reduce costs of leased electric power.

If money really is a problem then more HHP-8s should fit into the budget without difficulty.

“After rebuild of course” is a heavy phrase indeed, Mr. O’Keefe! It assumes that these units:
a) are suitable cores (good trucks, bodies, frames, motors, transformer, etc) beyond the electrical controls
b) will be intact after the settlement and not scrapped as part of it
c) will be supported by Alstom
d) would be less expensive to buy, rebuild, AND operate, than to buy more SC-44s or continue to lease ACS-64s (keeping in mind they’re pushing 20 years old and only usable on one line)
d) fit into the MARC long-term plans, including run-throughs with VRE

Like the AX-I power cars, these are likely headed to the tin can factory.

[gokeefe]

I think the proposition that these units would be cheaper to "buy, rebuild and operate" is indeed the key contingency.

Amtrak's lease rates on equipment are not cheap at all. Alstom may be able to offer a financing package for acquisition, rehabilitation, operation and maintenance that has a monthly payment which is less than Amtrak's lease. If that were the case then it would be an easy decision for MARC.

I acknowledge those who correctly noted that the units are the subject of a legal dispute between the lessor and the lessee.

Here is an interesting question: Can the power system handle MARC running all electric on the Penn Line? This would be a significant increase in power draw and typically would be during peak periods. I would also imagine that due to the ACS-64 acquisition that Amtrak rarely runs diesel power on any trains running over the NEC.

[STrRedWolf]

.

Here is an interesting question: Can the power system handle MARC running all electric on the Penn Line? This would be a significant increase in power draw and typically would be during peak periods. I would also imagine that due to the ACS-64 acquisition that Amtrak rarely runs diesel power on any trains running over the NEC.

That assumes you have enough passenger cars to run all three lines. Currently its an incorrect assumption to make. MARC 410 usually originates off the Brunswick line as MARC 890. I keep finding train orders for it on my way to work.

[ApproachMedium]

The lack of wire in marc facilities is not causing them any problems. They are redoing the HHPs in Martins airport and there is currently no electric service in that place.

[RRspatch]

I stand by my assertion that I've made before that Amtrak leaned on or told MARC to keep the electrics. With even more service planned in the future with the ACELA II train sets Amtrak doesn't want SLOW diesel powered trains on the south-end of the corridor.

The current layout of the track between Baltimore and Washington doesn't help with ALL southbound's operating on No.3 track. Yes, they have added switches at Bridge (No.23) and Carroll (No.32) for over takes but that assumes northbound traffic can go up No.1 track at Carroll. Someday the section between Winans and Carroll/Hanson will need to be four tracked with MARC on the outer tracks. All it will take is a LOT of money.

As far as electrifying MARC Martin Airport yard/shop that would require a feeder tap off of "A" track, a remote control section break switch from the power director at Wilmington and a few poles.

Will MARC buy any of the Amtrak HHP's? I doubt it but you never know.

Remembering my CETC 1 days ....

[ApproachMedium]

From my marc people contacts there has been a discussion to put wire up in martin airport for the support of full NEC electric ops so that electric sets dont need to layover in baltimore or DC only.

[STrRedWolf]

From my marc people contacts there has been a discussion to put wire up in martin airport for the support of full NEC electric ops so that electric sets dont need to layover in baltimore or DC only.

Having the wire up at MSA is a good idea there, so that any electric can berth off of that and not layover at a station.

[east point]

This poster has often thought that if there were diesel / electric EMUs that any layover facilities outside the electrified territory would have a short section of CAT or third rail as appropriate on layover tracks.

[mtuandrew]

Moderator Note: use and disposition of Amtrak HHP-8s please, not MARC layovers at Martin Airport.

[STrRedWolf]

While we can all agree, MARC could use some HHP-8's that actually work... they're not in any position to allow it. You'll need dedicated train sets. MARC doesn't have the equipment to do so.

The only thing that can be done now is to let the Amtrak HHP-8's sit and gather rust. They're now tied up in litigation. No parting out or whatnot until the case is played out. It's in the lawyer's hands now.