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  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

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 #1514826  by gokeefe
 
justalurker66 wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:47 pmThat would work with a three train rotation (on the Southwest Chief schedule) ... one could also do Kansas City to Flagstaff with three trains.
Why can't it run with only two? It's the same 17 hours as LOR-SFA.

With regards to location I figured it was worth making an attempt to actually fit inside the box and see what happened. An 8 hour drive from Chicago is intriguing. Google thinks it's just under 8 hours from Union Station in Chicago to Union Station in KC. If the terminal were located just east or north of KC it seems like a realistic option (skip the drive through endless cornfields in Kansas).
 #1514828  by electricron
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:08 pm Let's add a couple of auto-carriers onto the Capitol Limited and run it overnight to Washington. Then a couple of passenger cars and the auto-carriers are taken to Lorton and an overnight Chicago to the East Coast Auto Train is born. Then the cars are added to the existing Auto Train and a Chicago to Florida Auto Train is born.

And yes there would be a two night journey from Chicago to Florida but snowbirds would not care and if you left both ends on Friday you would still get plenty of time to visit the Mouse Kingdom and run out of money.
I can not see adding auto racks onto the Capital Limited occurring at Chicago's Union Station. So either the cars will be loaded onto the auto racks elsewhere and coupled onto the train at Union Station (how auto passengers get to Union Station after dropping off their autos will probably be by bus) or the train will have to stop somewhere to have the auto racks coupled onto the train with normal Capital Limited passengers waiting. You would face the same delays twice; in D.C. and Lorton for whichever train is chosen to get the Superliners and auto racks to Lorton.

It would be far better to have separate trains, if only so auto rack operations will be done during daylight at both ends of the route.

Wherever the Auto Train route is, a two night trip will add train sets - both Superliners and auto racks - to the train's operations. Chicago to Florida is very difficult because there is no existing direct Amtrak route today. If it follows your example, Chicago to Florida via Lorton, it would be 1655 rail miles. Math = 855 + 780 + 20 = 1655; therefore 1655 / 50 mph = 33.1 hours.
A solution would be running a separate Auto Train between Chicago and Lorton, merging the thru Chicago to Florida autoracks and Superliners to the existing Auto Train.

Taking that thought a little further, this new Auto Train will need to arrive in Lorton around 9 am as well. Which would mean a 5 pm departure from Chicago. 780+20 = 800, 800 / 50 mph = 16 hours. Lorton's passenger and auto rack facilities will have to be expanded because those thru Chicago to Florida passengers will be looking at an 8 hour wait in Lorton, as both trains are broken up and put together again. Those extra 8 hours will now make the time between Chicago and Sanford 41 hours. If either train runs late, things will be going loco (pun intended) at Lorton. Complicating operations in Lorton will compound any problems that will arise.
At least this two train service scenario with interlining operations is technically and physically possible - if all the facilities in Lorton can be expanded to handle four trains at a time and there are no difficulties running Superliners and auto racks from D.C. to Lorton.

But like any other two day route, it will take twice as much rolling stock as a single day route. Where will Amtrak find the additional auto racks and Superliners?
 #1514833  by justalurker66
 
gokeefe wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:38 pmWhy can't it run with only two? It's the same 17 hours as LOR-SFA.
I was keeping it as part of the Southwest Chief due to the complaints that the railroad would never allow another train on the route.

A separate schedule would help reduce consists. On the Chief schedule there is no turn around time in Chicago - but at Galesburg there would be 5h 38m to unload, reload and be ready for the westbound. On a separate schedule the endpoints could be moved using the "850 mile" or "750 mile" limits others are using.

I am not expecting the Chief to become a daily 40 car train. It would need to have enough traffic to pay for the ramps, equipment and staff. Less cars daily would allow for a smaller ramp than having a weekly auto train ... but there would be peak days and slow days.

An eight hour drive from Chicago is east of Pittsburgh (11 hours to DC, 13 to NY). Eight hours from Chicago is Memphis (14 to New Orleans). While people will drive the 8 hours from Boston to Lorton to take the 17 hour train there are a lot of bigger cities closer to Lorton to support that station (NY and DC, for example).

The more I look at it, the more I like Galesburg. Three hours from Chicago - Four hours from Milwaukee and Indianapolis. The four hour arc includes many other cities with people who would want to go west without an eight hour drive. And Galesburg is within seven hours of Detroit and Columbus and eight hours of Cleveland.
 #1514865  by bostontrainguy
 
Well at least it's good to know that someday in the future the Auto Train COULD get all the way to New Jersey!

To be conducted in partnership with CSX, the more than $450 million project calls for eliminating height restrictions in the 121-year-old tunnel to allow double-stack trains to move to and from the Port of Baltimore. The work will create double-stack clearance in the tunnel and under 22 bridges between Baltimore and Philadelphia.

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ect--58147
 #1514899  by Gilbert B Norman
 
lordsigma12345 wrote: Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:04 pmI recall hearing that coach at one time had a buffet dinner while first class had your traditional diner.
Lord, there were several food evolutions between the resumption of service by Amtrak Dec '83 and full implementation of Superliners during '97.

When the service resumed, there was a cafeteria dining arrangement for both classes. This was a Dining Car configured for the Cafeteria service, where passengers would select there food from casseroles, then an Attendant would carry your tray to an open table. This same arrangement was used on the Silver trains, and was adapted from that of the private Auto-Train.

Ask me, it "sucked".

The "ultimate" Dining experience for Sleepers occurred during '93 and prevailed until the Superliners arrived. Amtrak obtained three ex-MILW Super Domes (Web Lurker has them listed) that had come to Amtrak after a flopped "Luxoservice" Princess Cruises tried out on the Starlight. What a thrill for this ex-MILW type to sit in "my" Dome and be served Dinner (Prime Rib) and Breakfast. Princess had indeed enhanced the cars with Gold tinted glass.

Just not "Amtraky" - and not long for this world.

In the Superliner era, anything from "darned good" to "vile". I recall one "voyage" where I think the purveyor got orders mixed up and dropped at Sanford some USDA Prime steaks intended for somewhere like Hyde Park Grille in Daytona. That was "special".

On the vile side of things, my '17 "voyage" had Short Ribs that could just as easily been "broiled hockey puck".

No wonder when the '19 fares "pushed my obscenity button", and the Food had so deteriorated, it was Adios.
 #1514912  by gokeefe
 
gokeefe wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:30 pm
gokeefe wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:40 pm Newark - Jacksonville Option:

Newark - Hagerstown: 248 miles

Manassas - Atlanta: 601 miles (Thank you Amtrak Crescent timetable)

Total So Far: 849 ... Running out of miles ...
Hagerstown - Riverton (Front Royal, Junction with Piedmont Division): 59.0 ... 908 miles total ...
Riverton Junction to Manassas (Washington District, Piedmont Division): 50.9 miles ...

958.9 miles total (and that's just to get to Atlanta) ...
 #1514913  by lordsigma12345
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:01 pm In the Superliner era, anything from "darned good" to "vile". I recall one "voyage" where I think the purveyor got orders mixed up and dropped at Sanford some USDA Prime steaks intended for somewhere like Hyde Park Grille in Daytona. That was "special".

On the vile side of things, my '17 "voyage" had Short Ribs that could just as easily been "broiled hockey puck".

No wonder when the '19 fares "pushed my obscenity button", and the Food had so deteriorated, it was Adios.
It is curious to see what this will really look like given that the other Eastern trains are getting a downgrade....On one hand I am skeptical, but on the other hand when looking at this from a pure business standpoint and trying to put myself purely in the shoes of this management's thinking putting aside my personal opinions about how Amtrak should operate, downgrading the others and investing the money in the train that has the most potential to draw revenue and possibly break even seems plausible given that the current administration seems to want to run Amtrak like a private sector business. If they want to make Amtrak purely into a business then the Auto Train is probably one of the only pieces of the long distance side they are interested in. so who knows these upgrades could be halfway decent. I hope some of it is in place for my October trip so that I can report back here.
 #1514915  by gokeefe
 
gokeefe wrote: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:20 pm
gokeefe wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:30 pm
gokeefe wrote: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:40 pm Newark - Jacksonville Option:

Newark - Hagerstown: 248 miles

Manassas - Atlanta: 601 miles (Thank you Amtrak Crescent timetable)

Total So Far: 849 ... Running out of miles ...
Hagerstown - Riverton (Front Royal, Junction with Piedmont Division): 59.0 ... 908 miles total ...
Riverton Junction to Manassas (Washington District, Piedmont Division): 50.9 miles ...

958.9 miles total (and that's just to get to Atlanta) ...
Atlanta (Amtrak/Peachtree Station) - Norcross District: MP 633.3 - Howell @ 635.0 = 1.7 miles.

Macon Junction (which I believe is at the south end of Howell?) - Langdale Yard: 152.5 miles

Langdale Yard to Jacksonville: 108.2 miles

Grand Total Newark - Jacksonville: 1221.3

And thus ends the great "Auto Train NY" - Florida Edition Quest.
 #1514918  by gokeefe
 
Ironically enough you can get the rail miles down to 937.1 but that leaves your starting point in ... Manassas, VA ... 35 minutes away (by car) from the Lorton Auto Train Terminal.

Norfolk Southern is simply not direct enough to work on the East Coast Florida travel market. CSX has a permanent advantage.
 #1516720  by Gilbert B Norman
 
So now that Amtrak has circulated that the normal AT consist will be eight Sleepers and four Coaches, full service dining for Sleepers, snack bar as well as the opportunity to purchase food from vendors at both LOR and SFA for Coach, this service plan is both relieving and interesting.

Relieving in that if "the price is right" and not "pushing my obscenity button" as it did this past February, I'll bite for a Voyage 24. Interesting is that Sleepers are reputed to be the "biggest losers" and yet they add two per consist.

What remains unresolved is the reference to Cross Country Cafe; does this mean that 370XX Diner-Lounges (the cars associated with that branding) will be assigned in place of the 3350X Lounges? If so, then the one 331XX Sightseer in the AT pool can be released and reassigned "where needed", i.e. Trains 1-14 inclusive. With the discontinuation of Coach Dining service, four 380XX Diners can be released.
 #1516744  by gokeefe
 
Given the high utilization rates (and fares) on Auto Train I doubt very much that the sleepers are losing money on that route. However, as a general proposition I would strongly agree with Mr. Norman. On most other routes Amtrak simply doesn't have the demand or pricing power to charge fares that are in line with costs.
 #1516858  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Who knows?

My Florida trip next year Jan 18 to 26, is earlier than normal - stay away from all the Super Bowl hoopla "infecting" South Florida.

I checked AT 52(26JAN) and the fare of $661, me in Bedroom, "Black Beauty" on the rack, is acceptable to me.

So my American Express cycles on the 20th, and if that fare still stands, I could well "bite". Paying up front four months out is tolerable to me (bought concert tickets for Salzburg during April).
 #1516952  by lordsigma12345
 
Probably too much to hope but maybe Auto Train will get better food with the changes coming. I’d like it if they served some of the dishes from the normal long distance menu - usually the meals on AT, while prepared on board and better than the various contemporary/diner lites, are more limited and a step below the full service diner on the other LD trains. I actually thought the AT food was all simply preprepared and reheated and didn’t realize they had a chef until recently. We shall see.
 #1516956  by gokeefe
 
I'm guessing it will actually improve based on the announcement. I think they've made a strategic decision to go up market and treat the Auto Train for what it is: a financially viable premium service train.
 #1524240  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Well, the $661 I noted earlier (me in a Bedroom; Black Beauty on the rack) for NB on #52(26JAN) is now $693; my finger is reaching for the obscenity button, but not quite there yet.

Again I must note, while AT advertises they save 815 miles of I-95 driving, that's fine if your destination is the Northeast. But mine is Chicago and the excess over a direct journey of 75-24-57 less 95-70-76-80-Auto Train is 355 miles. It's "two nights out" either way.

There need be a "railfan fancy" to want to do that; the promised enhanced Dining may or may not be there. The "Amenity Kit"? Yeah, Rah, Rah. When I've gone overseas to Salzburg in each of the past six years in Business Class, United's is just something to be left unopened on the plane.
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