Amtrak Auto Train Discussion

[mtuandrew]

Also keep in mind NS is an option, at least from New Jersey southward to Jacksonville. They’ve fully cleared the Crescent Corridor for doubles and that makes a Newark-Ironbound Terminal practical.

What I’d like to see, but I recognize is impractical until a B&P Tunnel replacement is finished at least, is a connection on the north end from New Jersey to Lorton leaving late In the evening and overnighting at Lorton. Amtrak can clear Plate F cars from what I understand, mostly, or else NS wouldn’t practically be able to exercise its NEC rights. (Superliners are roundly Plate F - what clearance are the Amtrak auto carriers?) To entice people to waste another evening on the railroad, perhaps it could include free admission to Mount Vernon or an IKEA discount in Woodbridge, VA

[gokeefe]

No Auto Carriers on the NEC ... Pretty sure that's Plate H.

[JimBoylan]

Then you have to take into account the maximum speed of the auto racks, which I doubt is much more than 60 mph - the speed the extended train to south Philadelphia will have to average.

The Amtrak AutoTrain does travel as fast as 70 m.p.h. on CSXT, but it is still subject to other speed restrictions.

[Jeff Smith]

I love these discussions. Improbable or impossible, they are good exercises.

Yup, NEC is out. I do like NS vs. CSX. What about the NS Southern Tier as a bypass?

[Arlington]

{EDIT AND REPLACED}
I would try to do a model for:
Front Royal (VIRGINIA INLAND PORT!!!) to Atlanta
Harrisburg to Greenville SC (easy to Atlanta and all of the Carolinas)

[mtuandrew]

What about the NS Southern Tier as a bypass?

Perfect for the new Binghamton-Birmingham Auto Train

[gokeefe]

So would it be correct to understand that using an all NS routing there's a viable route Newark to Jacksonville?

That's a pretty big deal if true ...

[SouthernRailway]

{EDIT AND REPLACED}
I would try to do a model for:
Front Royal (VIRGINIA INLAND PORT!!!) to Atlanta
Harrisburg to Greenville SC (easy to Atlanta and all of the Carolinas)

Nobody needs an Auto-Train to the Carolinas, except on the coast. The Carolinas are business travel heavy but light on tourist travel.

[mtuandrew]

So would it be correct to understand that using an all NS routing there's a viable route Newark to Jacksonville?

That's a pretty big deal if true ...

How’s that a big deal? It’s been a work in progress for decades. But yes, it’s possible to go NWK-HAR-Front Royal-ATL-JAX via Norfolk Southern. But the CSX route NWK-JAX is much more direct.

Arlington: why Front Royal and negotiating a new contract with NS (who I don’t imagine wants the hassle either) when you could piggyback on the existing Lorton Auto Train facility and contract with CSX, then use them to reach Atlanta?

[gokeefe]

It's a big deal because it means the route is operationally feasible. Amtrak would have options with a different carrier should they wish to make an attempt to develop the route. Auto Train is potentially more attractive to a freight carrier than other Amtrak services. It runs with the flow of freight traffic at the same speeds and probably has a different host railroad payment structure than regular passenger trains. Service typically operates 365 days a year and Amtrak has proven themselves to be very competent in the associated logistics.

I would imagine CSX would not want a second Auto Train on their heavily congested main line and consequently NS seems to me a potentially attractive secondary option.

The question remains ... Can you go from Newark to Jacksonville in the time necessary to make the same day turn?

[justalurker66]

I love these discussions. Improbable or impossible, they are good exercises.

The improbable is easy enough to read past for those more interested in the possible.

[Jeff Smith]

Well said. Well said.

[electricron]

If there were to be a terminal at Worcester, MA and assuming the train stays on CSX how far down the East Coast could it get before having to turn?

Superliners can not travel through the tunnels at New York City, so this train from Worcester will have to be a single level train, with single level auto racks as well. The limiting factor is time and average speed of the train. Assuming the barely acceptable 7 hour turnaround that exists today, the train can only travel for 17 hours. With the same average speed of 50 mph achieved today, this new train could travel around 850 rail miles. If average speeds could be raised to 60 mph, this new train could travel around 1020 miles. Not even Acela trains average 70 mph south of New York City, so there is no need to calculate that average speed.
Basic math; 17 x 50 = 850, 17 x 60 = 1020
It’s 156 rail miles from Worcester to New York City, therefore
More math; 850 - 156 = 694 , 1020 - 156 = 864.
694 rail miles south of New York City would place this train 34 miles north of Charleston SC, or 7 miles north of Camden SC depending on the route selected.
864 rail miles south of New York City would place this train at 35 miles south of Savanah GA, or 7 miles north of Savanah GA depending upon the route selected.
Neither Charleston SC nor Savanah GA will attract the number of vacationing families the Auto Train survives on to support a daily train with auto racks trailing. Again, another proposal with zero chances of working.

[Arlington]

I liked Front Royal for it's friendly landlord (I think it is a State of VA entity) but other than that I don't really like the NS routings. Still penciling out the math on Newark to Atlanta is probably worth it.

[gokeefe]

If there were to be a terminal at Worcester, MA and assuming the train stays on CSX how far down the East Coast could it get before having to turn?

Superliners can not travel through the tunnels at New York City, so this train from Worcester will have to be a single level train, with single level auto racks as well.

I was thinking CSX out ex-Conrail (former Boston & Albany) to Selkirk and then south/southwest from there ... That route is already cleared for domestic double stack containers and auto racks.