Amtrak Desert Wind Los Angeles LA - Las Vegas NV Past Present Future

[Rockingham Racer]

Because funding was cut to Amtrak back when and that and a few other routes had to be cut. Talk to your congressperson if you want better passenger rail.

[NY&LB]

https://news3lv.com/news/local/high-spe ... 2023-start

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Carajul, if there is any unserved passenger train market that would be an overnight success, it has to be "Angels-Meadows". True, Amtrak did have circa 1972, a short lived "Las Vegas Special", and then 1980-96 (or thereabouts) an intermediate stop of the "Desert Wind".

But the fact remains is that both BNSF and UP contend they do not have capacity to handle such trains - especially multi frequency. This especially the case over the Cajon Pass (roundly followed by I-15). It completely follows that Metrolink can operate up to the base of Cajon (San Bernardino) and Tehachapi (Lancaster), but not over.

So it appears that new trackage will need be laid.

Various private sector proposals have come and gone, the outstanding one is that of Virgin Trains immediately noted by Mr. Long Branch. Such does not propose X-ing the San Gabriel's into the Basin, but terminating at Victorville to the North sidenof the mountains. They would lay their own trackage there to Vegas.

In view of how mistaken I have been about Brightline, I.pass any comment regarding the Virgin proposal.

We shall see.

[Jeff Smith]

Can't believe no one's posted the link! SMH: Virgin (XpressWest/DesertXpress) Las Vegas - Victorville - Los Angeles

[Pensyfan19]

https://news3lv.com/news/local/high-spe ... 2023-start

Amtrak did state something recently about developing a Los Angeles to Las Vegas line in the near future, but they are too late at this point since brightline is already going to start construction within a few months. This can be an example on where a private corporation would win over passengers over a busy region and become very successful and profitable and show the benefits of private corporations running a railroad rather than government-funded Amtrak.

[NRGeep]

https://news3lv.com/news/local/high-spe ... 2023-start

Amtrak did state something recently about developing a Los Angeles to Las Vegas line in the near future, but they are too late at this point since brightline is already going to start construction within a few months. This can be an example on where a private corporation would win over passengers over a busy region and become very successful and profitable and show the benefits of private corporations running a railroad rather than government-funded Amtrak.

And Brightline will recieve no government subsidies?

[SouthernRailway]

And Brightline will recieve no government subsidies?

It does not need or want government subsidies.

It may use a tool called "private activity bonds" that lets a company issue bonds at a relatively low interest rate. And governments may want to partner with Brightline to build stations and improve grade crossings. But that's it.

[ziggyzack1234]

Good chance for public-private-partnership. Caltrans and Virgin could together make something work. Food for thought.

[Rockingham Racer]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't understand why California would be interested in funding a service without the participation of Nevada.

[RRspatch]

Mr. Carajul, if there is any unserved passenger train market that would be an overnight success, it has to be "Angels-Meadows". True, Amtrak did have circa 1972, a short lived "Las Vegas Special", and then 1980-96 (or thereabouts) an intermediate stop of the "Desert Wind".

But the fact remains is that both BNSF and UP contend they do not have capacity to handle such trains - especially multi frequency. This especially the case over the Cajon Pass (roundly followed by I-15). It completely follows that Metrolink can operate up to the base of Cajon (San Bernardino) and Tehachapi (Lancaster), but not over.

So it appears that new trackage will need be laid.

New track has been laid. The line over Cajon Pass had a third track added in 2007-2008. This was about 10 years after the Desert Wind stopped running.
https://www.trainmaster.ch/cajon-09.htm

As for capacity traffic is down and has been trending downward for over a year now.
https://www.aar.org/news/rail-traffic-f ... ry-4-2020/

It looks like Wall Streets plan to run off customers and asset strip the industry is working as intended. Having worked on the freight side for 21 years that exactly as I see it .... asset stripping.

Strangely enough the UP had few problems running the Desert Wind back in the 90's when traffic level were probably higher than today.

Various private sector proposals have come and gone, the outstanding one is that of Virgin Trains immediately noted by Mr. Long Branch. Such does not propose X-ing the San Gabriel's into the Basin, but terminating at Victorville to the North sidenof the mountains. They would lay their own trackage there to Vegas.

In view of how mistaken I have been about Brightline, I.pass any comment regarding the Virgin proposal.

We shall see.

I wish Brightline all the luck but not getting into LA I think is a BIG mistake. If you made it over the hill to Victorville you might as well drive the rest of the way.

[Rockingham Racer]

RRSpatch: the capacity improvements on Cajon Pass did not help the movements to Las Vegas [if that's what you meant to imply]. Trains from LA to Las Vegas have to use BNSF from Barstow east a few miles to Daggett, where the UP Main Line diverges, goes up Cima Hill, and on to LV. But perhaps you already know that.

[BrantH]

Do you think this will ever improve? Or do we need underground tunnels all the way? haha

[njtmnrrbuff]

Cajon Pass is not meant to handle high speed corridor style rail operation. For any regular frequent and fast rail service to run from LA to Las Vegas, the right of way would have to be as straight as possible through Cajon Pass.

[Tadman]

I wish Brightline all the luck but not getting into LA I think is a BIG mistake. If you made it over the hill to Victorville you might as well drive the rest of the way.

I have my reservations about that, too. But LA is so spread out, where do you go over the hill? LAUPT? And once there, where do the passengers go? People in that area live all over the place and going downtown for half the neighborhoods is an extra hour or more.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't understand why California would be interested in funding a service without the participation of Nevada.

Strictly from an economic development perspective, you're right. Why would California pay for a service to take tourists out of state? But from an infrastructure perspective, it might make more sense. Maybe running 2x/day to Las Vegas and back is cheaper than expanding the highway and maintaining it. But given that LAS is out of state, the state could just sit on their hands and never expand the highway, leaving Vegas-goers to drown in traffic or find a new attraction. But I've found people set on Vegas are only going to Vegas.

[Tadman]

Mr. Carajul, if there is any unserved passenger train market that would be an overnight success, it has to be "Angels-Meadows". True, Amtrak did have circa 1972, a short lived "Las Vegas Special", and then 1980-96 (or thereabouts) an intermediate stop of the "Desert Wind".

This is a really good example of why our token LD network is conceptually so flawed and should be dumped in favor of a focus on regional and corridor trains. If 200k people visit Vegas every weekend from LA how did the train fail? Because it was at bad times and/or unpredictable. Given that the past Wind had to travel from Chicago over two host roads and split consist at Denver, it's no surprise that the performance was likely erratic. It's also a shame that they couldnt' turn back at Vegas and keep shuttling high revenue passengers between the two towns. Instead it trundled across the desert with 100-200 people aboard thrice weekely, while 200,000 people waited at McCarran and on the highway.

If we really wanted a useful rail network, they would've arranged it so there was a regional train 3x/day Thurs-Fri-San-Sun with coach and business only. And then you have Nevada's vote for Amtrak. Kind of like running a LAX-PHX-TUS 1x plus 6x Hiawatha-like TUS-PHX. Now you have Arizona's vote with ten high density coaches and three engines. And lots of people are actually using the train!