Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

[R36 Combine Coach]

New York state now has to get in line with everybody else to get cars from Siemens,most likely after Amtrak's order.

BBD and CAF already can build full stainless shells in state (Plattsburgh and Elmira). NYS has a "made in NY" incentive program (see MTA for examples).

[Backshophoss]

BBD is NO Longer an Amtrak approved Vendor/Supplier,CAF is tied up with the Viewliner II's and might not bid,
Alstrom is tied up with the Acela II's production

BBD is praying for that combined MN/ConnDOT MLV II clone order!

[WhartonAndNorthern]

BBD is NO Longer an Amtrak approved Vendor

Is that official or just your speculation? Certainly Amtrak and some of its current executives (others have moved on) haven't been fond of Bombardier's performance and past performance can be considered to determine if a bidder is "qualified."

I know Amtrak's spoken about one common PRIIA fleet for maintenance ease, but Siemens may be unable to supply the needs for all the states ready to buy cars. If NC or NY ends up with Bombardier coaches built to PRIIA single level specs, Amtrak will have little choice but to accept them.


On a different note, has NYS been working to increase speeds elsewhere on the Water Level Route? CSX had some "excessive" demands regarding track separation of dedicated high speed track, wrt. distance from their other tracks, while NY I believe only wanted to upgrade the existing route. I get that CSX (And NS in the case of Norfolk service) feel that there are fundamental incompatibilities with signal block length for slow freights and high speed passenger trains.

A lot of this was like three CEOs ago and the last CEO wanted to single track the route. Has NYS attempted to apply any leverage like property tax or corporate rebates or even threatened higher taxes to get what it wants? Or even threatened to park a National Guard tank across the RoW?

One plus is that the route is now PTC equipped so no need to install cab signalling. Maybe a few strategic NYS grants can at least get some class 5 track.

[electricron]

On a different note, has NYS been working to increase speeds elsewhere on the Water Level Route? CSX had some "excessive" demands regarding track separation of dedicated high speed track, wrt. distance from their other tracks, while NY I believe only wanted to upgrade the existing route. I get that CSX (And NS in the case of Norfolk service) feel that there are fundamental incompatibilities with signal block length for slow freights and high speed passenger trains.
A Has NYS attempted to apply any leverage like property tax or corporate rebates or even threatened higher taxes to get what it wants? Or even threatened to park a National Guard tank across the RoW?

The problem with using force to get railroad companies to do the political will of the government, like blocking the tracks with a tank, is how the railroad companies will react. You block my tracks, I (as a company) will go on strike against you! I wonder how fast the State of New York could survive without any train services at all ? How long before they starve to death? How long before their generators use up their fuel stockpiles? A few well placed trains blocking highways would block other modes of resupply as well, like interstate trucks and trucks servicing harbors.
Using forces is never the answer!
Raising taxes high enough to punish the railroad companies can also have just as bad results. If it is unprofitable for them to service you, they could decide to stop servicing you, pull up their tracks and signals, then abandon the right-of-way. Something they have done everywhere else when a rail corridor has become unprofitable to run or maintain.
Using too high taxes is never the answer!
I am not suggesting that is what they will do, but it is something they could do. Actions always have consequences, take the time to consider what could happen anytime you do something because what you expected may not be the results you wanted.

[Jeff Smith]

Nice debate. Let's get back to Empire Service. Thanks!

[mohawkrailfan]

Is the Maple Leaf using dual-modes all the way to Toronto now? I heard 63 come through with 703 in the lead today. They used to change engines at Rensselaer.

[Hudson2640]

The bridge into Canada is currently OOS so the train has been terminating in Niagara Falls. However, I have been seeing 281/ 280 running with a P42 West of Albany as of late.

[MACTRAXX]

MR: I will second H2640 and mention that the Whirlpool Bridge at Niagara Falls is currently closed for
trackwork and renovation between September 9 and November 8, 2019. There is 9 days left for this
service change as of this post which ends on the weekend (Saturday-11/9) of 11/9 and 11/10.

https://www.amtrak.com/alert/whirlpool- ... rvice.html

Amtrak trains #63 and #64 are terminating at Niagara Falls, NY with a nonstop bus connection to Toronto.

I was surprised that no one mentioned this in any of the relevant topics previously...MACTRAXX

[Roadgeek Adam]

When I took the Maple Leaf on October 7, these were the engines.

[SRich]

Now CSX are selling multiple lines, is there any chance that the to Amtrak leased line wil be sold to Amtrak ore NYDOT?

[Arlington]

Now CSX are selling multiple lines, is there any chance that the to Amtrak leased line wil be sold to Amtrak ore NYDOT?

I'd like to see NYS do a Virginia-style purchase from CSX, and buy 2 track's width of ROW (and any station space) for the whole Empire route they don't own.

[CHTT1]

If the money's right, I think CSX would sell anything to anybody.

[Jeff Smith]

Now CSX are selling multiple lines, is there any chance that the to Amtrak leased line wil be sold to Amtrak ore NYDOT?

I'd like to see NYS do a Virginia-style purchase from CSX, and buy 2 track's width of ROW (and any station space) for the whole Empire route they don't own.

Brilliant. It was a 4-track ROW at one point. At least get the portion below Albany.

[mtuandrew]

Brilliant. It was a 4-track ROW at one point. At least get the portion below Albany.

Amtrak is already in a long-term lease from Schenectady to Poughkeepsie, and it doesn’t sound like they’re in any danger of the lease getting canceled. Why not lease or buy Niagara Falls to Schenectady instead of purchasing Schenectady-Poughkeepsie outright?

[shadyjay]

Agreed on the portion west of Albany. The line from ALB south towards NYP doesn't get nearly the amount of freight traffic as the line west of Schenectady does. And with that previously being 4 tracks wide, it should be (relatively) easy to re-accommodate that trackage. Sure, some signals and associated bugalows may have to be moved, but it would give Amtrak a dedicated right of way, free of freight. Start out as one track with some passing sidings, and expand to 2 tracks as finances permit.

Sure, all it takes is a lot of $$$.