Amtrak Projects/Priorities in an Infrastructure Stimilus

[Jeff Smith]

So they're talking about a "Phase IV" COVID spending bill, an infrastructure stimulus. Some numbers I've seen bandied about reach as high as $4T (that's $4,000,000,000,000). ADVISORY: the subject is NOT the efficacy, need, etc. of the stimulus, but a priority of projects.

Let's assume transit is a huge priority, including everyone's favorite intercity railroad, Amtrak. Let's say Amtrak gets funding for their ENTIRE wish list. What do you put on the wish list? As with our "Amtrak gets $2b topic", which now seems quaint, let's keep it to needed, nice to have, and so on, not fantastical ideas like the North Coast Hiawatha LOL.

Let's make it a top 10:

1. Gateway, including rehab of both existing North and East River tunnels, and Portal/4-tracking to Newark Penn. I mean, DUH!

2. Replacement/upgrade of catenary system west of NYP.

3. Widening and electrification south of Washington to Richmond, including purchase of additional fleet as required, including Avelia.

4. Upgrade of Atlantic Coast infrastructure to reduce freight interference and potential HSR along the old ACL/SCL/CSX route (the Meteor's routing) using diesel high speed equipment. Think Avelia with higher speed diesels. I'm not crazy enough to suggest electrification THAT FAR! But seriously, in 1937 the Meteor took 25 hours. Now it's what, 28? A NY - FL route that ran improved times would take a ton of cars off 95.

5. Upgrade and implementation of SEHSR over the Crescent route, including a new station in Atlanta, and bypass of Howell Junction. An additional oppositionally-scheduled frequency from ATL to NYP.

6. Improvement of the NYS Empire Corridor service.

7. An upgraded NEC inland routing, perhaps even the fantastical (okay, I'm allowing myself some leeway foaming) bypass of the coastline route between Boston and New York. Alternatively: purchase of NEC owned by MNRR and CtDOT between New Rochelle, NY and New Haven, CT with replacement of sub-standard bridges.

8. A full length restored Sunset East with additional frequencies.

9. Additional corridor services with appropriate frequencies as have been recently studied such as the Knoxville - Chattanooga (connection to Atlanta) - Nashville - Memphis kind studied by Amtrak.

10. A high(er)-speed transcon routing over the SW Chief or Texas Eagle routing, or both.

Honorable Mention: Restored LD services where they make sense. A Desert Wind? A Floridian (although likely impossible to recreate a route)? A North Coast Hiawatha (LOL)?

[STrRedWolf]

• Gateway
• B&P Tunnel replacement (Circle Tunnel project) ($5B price tag now)
• Rehab of catenary system west of NYP
• 4-tracking WAS to NYP.
• Inland routing NYP to BOS.
• Track speed upgrades along the Silver Meteor route.
• Full-length Sunset East restored, even if you have to build new track.
• Tunneled service between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh (Cougar Mountain?)
• Faster transcon routing Chicago-Dallas-Phoenix-LA.
• Lobbying money to let Amtrak litigate all those late train problems on it's own.

[David Benton]

I'll start with the east coast .
- Gateway tunnels.
- 2nd long bridge and associated trackwork
-electrification Albany New York .
- Electrification New Haven- Springfield.
-Electrification Washington- Richmond.
- Everywhere else East, a network of DMU's and Thruway buses to create California like connectivity. This could possibly be top of the list , as providing the most bang for buck .
I presume we are not going to include HSR routes not operated by Amtrak?

[mtuandrew]

Mr. Benton: such a stimulus bill would probably include private passenger railroad industry grants (grumble) and no/low-interest loans (fine with me, I suppose.)

My list:
1) Gateway 1) B&P (just about equal priority)
3) Amtrak’s own South Of The Lake approach -not something owned by Norfolk Southern - and any associated CREATE project.
4) undercutting the 1st St Tunnel (Washington DC) for future catenary. Won’t be able to do much work while Congress is in session, so this is the time.
5) RFP and sign an order to replace all long-distance cars that haven’t been previously completed, both single and bilevel. Whether one nationwide design or two (east and west), make it happen. Then, shop the V-Is for their heavy rebuild to V-II standard.
6) award an order to replace all remaining A-I and Horizon corridor equipment, as well as Metroliner and F40 cab control units.
7) force UP into compliance for CHI-STL higher-speed rail operation, or purchase it from them at market value.
8) Quad Cities service
9) corridor WAS-ATL
10) corridor CHI-DET-Toronto. Surprise curveball

[Backshophoss]

First off,Portal,sawmill bridges and Gateway tunnels
Extend wire to inwood on the w 30th street branch(Empire connection)
Get the Inland route up and running(NHV-Springfield-Worcester-Boston south)
Finish Harold interlocking
Replace Pelham bay moveable bridge
Help MN build Walk bridge replacement
Howard st tunnel in Balto
Triple track Balto to Wash Union station
Beef up distribution network on NEC before extending wire to Richmond Va

[bdawe]

NEC Stuff, of course, BUT, taking things away from the Greater North East Corridor

1) complete CHSR. Even if it's not strictly Amtrak no reason it shouldn't be integrated w/ Amtrak like the Capitol Corridor (which is managed by BART on behalf of the counties)
This would have the benefit of, at this point, being a lot more shovel ready, though fully funding CHSR right now would bake in some bad plans like Tehachapi and Pacheco. Complete with tunnel to Transbay Terminal.


3) Funding for completing Brightline/Texas Central/Desert Express on the condition that they accept through ticketing and possible timetable integration with Amtrak.

2) Electrify LOSSAN between Santa Barbara and San Diego. Acquire modern EMUS for LOSSAN and the NE Regionals. Bypass alignment along I-5 to avoid the big Miramar hill/curve, other improvements

4) Implement the 2006 WSDOT plan for fast Cascades service between Vancouver, Seattle & Portland, with faster and more frequent trains, curve alignments, dedicated tracks, particularly between Bellingham and Portland or Eugene. Improve-Cross Columbia rail capacity, possibly with eye towards Portland-Washington regional rail.

5) Pheonix-Tucscon corridor rail. Fix up the connection west of Phoenix to send Sunset Ltd to Phoenix again.

6) make all LD trains at least daily or cancel them.

7) Implement the Iowa higher speed rail plan by buying out the Iowa Interstate and rebuilding the ex-Rock Island, bringing multiple frequencies a day to the Quad Cities, Des Moines, Omaha and Lincoln

8) Day-trains (or more frequent, as warranted) from Chicago to Cleveland, Memphis, Cincinnati, Kansas City, with route improvements as needed, in order to support and leverage existing LD infrastructure

9) along the same vein, more regional frequencies Cleveland-Buffalo, Cleveland-Pittsburgh, New Orleans-San Antonio, Atlanta-New York

[east point]

My top 10 will be generalized. Just for the eastern routes. This of course with enough rolling stock to operate all demand and some left over for rush time extra trains.
1. BOS - NYP inland route including all bridges replacement, Harold CP, and East river tunnel bores.
2. The whole Gateway project including new bores, saw tooth work, Portal bridges, 4 main tracks.
3. Constant tension CAT upgrades NYP - WASH including upgrading to eventual 60 Hz.
4. Removal of slow sections NYP - WASH especially Elizabeth, Frankford Jct - North PHL, and south of PHL - WASH Including all bridges and track to be 4 main tracks. Includes B&P new tunel bores,
5. New bores for WASH 1st ave tunnel auto rack clearances , new Long Bridge with 4 main tracks past ALX and 3 Main tracks to Richmond Main street eliminating slow sections. Electrify same.
6. Restore ACL 2 main tracks Richmond - Florida minimum MAS 90 or more ( 125 ) whole route eliminating all slower sections. ( I know a thousand grade crossings )
7. HSR Richmond - ( S line ) Raleigh - CLT - ATL with new HSR station at ATL. New flyovers at Howell Jct..
8. CNO route - Nashville, - CHA - ATL. ATL - JAX - South Florida and west Florida . One train by way of Savannah
9. Empire route purchase similar to the WASH - Richmond purchase with upgrades to at least 110 MAS includes all the way to CHI.
10. PHL - Pittsburg -- Toledo Upgrade to 110 MPH.

[mtuandrew]

NEC Stuff, of course, BUT, taking things away from the Greater North East Corridor

[lots of ideas]

Thank you - I’m glad to see some California love (though CAHSR probably needs an inspector-general in case costs start to skyrocket again, and a better eminent domain process.) I agree with all of your points, and especially through-ticketing with Amtrak.

I’ll also submit CHI-MKE-MSP as a 110 mph multi-frequency corridor (4/day plus the Empire Builder to start.) Canadian Pacific has been a good host to Amtrak but an outright purchase or lease of the ex-MILW, or half the right-of-way as in Virginia, would open up new possibilities and take pressure off I-94 and KMSP, KMKE, KORD and KMDW airports.

[Greg Moore]

Hmm, this would be tough:
1) Gateway (I'm lumping portal in here too)
2) Expand, enhance electrification: as others have said, constant tension, ideally more uniformity in frequency, and yes, my favorites, expansion to Albany, Springfield and points south of DC. - This is actually more than just a wish list. I think as we try to get greener, this will become a bigger and bigger priority, and honestly, we need to build a LOT of experience in doing this. Doing a major project as a on-off every other decade (like New-Haven-BOS) or so is silly.
3) Amfleet 3 replacement and expansion - minimum 700 cars. More likely 800. But do this as a multi-year contract, 100-150 cars a year. Again, we don't want a one-off, we want a viable industry so that as Amtrak expands we can build the fleet further.
4) More Viewliners - unlike most, I do see a value in east coast LD trains, in 2 roles: overnight hotels between major cities (but in some cases have to be faster, NYP-CHI in 14 hours anyone?) and on the North->Florida routes
5) Superliner 3 replacement and expansion. Probably 500-550 cars. I don't see this expanding as much, but having more cars for future expansion or handling peak seasonal loads is a good idea.
6) ADA compliance - across the board. Make sure trains are accessible to everyone that needs them, so cars (see above) and stations and places I may not think of.
7) Since this came up elsewhere - the most robust, amazing Wifi network possible along key corridors (NEC, Chicago area, California). A business person should be able to get on a train and expect bandwidth comparable to what they get in the office. While this might be nice on LD trains, it's not nearly as critical.
8,9) Others mentioned some other stuff, Baltimore tunnel, 4 track NYP-WAS, etc. insert here as needed.
10) (actually use one of the infrastructure items not covered yet, but for fun I'll shove in an operational item: Day trains at 6 or 9 or 12 hours along most LD routes. I've used the Crescent as an example, a station that's open for a good part of the day for 1 train in each direction. Add a day train, leaving WAS in the morning arriving evening, and flipping and leaving ATL in the morning. Can now serve stations normally served at wee hours, and makes better use of the existing personal, etc.) Similar on some of the Western LD routes. Perhaps the entire length, but w/ minimal sleepers. Again, the idea is to make use of existing resources to server more than "a train a day".

Overall, keep in mind a Stimulus bill will focus on infrastructure and capital expenses more than operational in many cases, and as well it should.

Oh here's an 11: Give every American a voucher for one round trip worth up to $150 from any station of their choice. Non-transferable. But give folks who have never taken the train an excuse to experience it.

[electricron]

Thank you - I’m glad to see some California love (though CAHSR probably needs an inspector-general in case costs start to skyrocket again, and a better eminent domain process.) I agree with all of your points, and especially through-ticketing with Amtrak.

I’ll also submit CHI-MKE-MSP as a 110 mph multi-frequency corridor (4/day plus the Empire Builder to start.) Canadian Pacific has been a good host to Amtrak but an outright purchase or lease of the ex-MILW, or half the right-of-way as in Virginia, would open up new possibilities and take pressure off I-94 and KMSP, KMKE, KORD and KMDW airports.

I believe any stimulus money grants to intercity rail should be a match of the total costs, with the states in question participating at 50%, and FRA at 50%. There must be some local skin (money) in these projects - rail, bus, tugs, trucks, planes, etc.
The federal government will not be building any of these projects, it will be state and city agencies doing so, and administrating them as well. The best administrators are those managing their own financial resources as well.

It is 410 rail miles between Chicago and Saint Paul, and approximately 8 hours elapse times give or take a half hour.
The existing train averages around 51 mph over tracks with top speeds up to 79 mph (keeping the match simple lets say 80 mph). How long would it take it the max train speed was 110 mph vs 80 mph?
Would a ratio math work best at finding an answer?
80 mph x 8 hours = 640 miles. 640 miles - 410 miles = 230 miles. 410 miles - 230 miles = 180 miles. Therefore one could state around 180 miles of the route the train achieves 80 mph speeds. The train loses in 8 hours around 230 miles for slow order tracks.
I suggest the same would be true if every bit of 80 mph track was upgraded to 110 mph track.
Therefore, 110/80 x 180 miles = 247 miles. The faster train could travel 247 miles vs the 180 miles over the best track, a gain of 67 miles. At 110 mph speeds, that's around 0.6 of an hour, around 36 minutes time savings.
So the 8 hour trip is now around 7 hours and 24 minutes.

Would saving 36 minutes be worth all the additional costs to upgrade the track and signals for 110 mph max speeds?
Even if the time savings was double what I calculated, would saving an hour on the existing 8 hour trip be worth it?
I suggest not!

[bdawe]

I think a 50 percent match you suggest is really not in keeping with the times we live in.

It will have to come down to simply overseeing that money is spent well, because the state and local governments expected to come up with this match have just had their revenue smashed by the economic shut down and are required to keep balanced budgets. The whole point here is to use Washington's unrivaled fiscal capacity to get the economy moving again and provide useful public infrastructure, and that isn't going to happen in the time frame it needs to if we're waiting around for the next election cycle's bond measure vote rather than putting existing plans into operation now. (which I will admit, is a time frame that pushes out blue-sky, unplanned upgrades like new corridors or tabula-rasa electrification projects)

[rcthompson04]

I like many of the ideas here, but often missed in stimulus proposals is whether something can be done rather quickly, which is really the point of a stimulus (create short term growth that acts like a spark plug for the rest of the economy). The focus should be things that can get started rather quickly and can create jobs soon. Buying right of way is just a payment to the railroads in many cases so I would avoid such measures unless absolutely necessary. If it will take years to design, that might not work either.

1. NEC improvements... the Gateway and Baltimore are obvious projects that you can get pieces moving quickly as it has been planned to death. I would also support replacing the electrical system west/south of NYP including to Harrisburg. Anything else that is far along in planning should be pursued. I think there is some station work out there waiting for money. If it can be done now, do it.

2. Equipment... anything that is in the pipeline that can start production relatively soon should accelerated. Obvious ones are the Amfleet Is and Genesis locomotives replacements.

3. Class 1 Infrastructure Priorities... I am sure the Class I railroads have infrastructure plans and priorities. Where there is an Amtrak benefit, agree to fund if the Class I agree to service level agreements.

[Alex M]

For a dose of realism, the focus should be on Amtrak owned or controlled infrastructure, which means the NEC and the Wolverine route through Michigan. These two alone could easily soak up 50 billion to address the backlog of maintenance needs. Beyond this, you would have to include the host railroads who have their own views on this matter. States like VA and NC would receive funding for capacity expansion as well as restoring now dormant lines like the S line. Another need would be for Amtrak to re-equip all of the trains, both corridor and long distance, which would support a domestic passenger rail locomotive and car manufacturing industry.

[electricron]

I think a 50 percent match you suggest is really not in keeping with the times we live in.

Amongst the reasons why Trump supports a huge infrastructure program is because borrowing money at near 0% interest rates now is cheap. I suggest it is just as cheap for states to borrow money as it is for the federal government. As long as the states are administrating these construction projects, they should have some financial skin in the game. It is keeping with the times.

If any project is 100% funded by anyone - federal, state, county, or city - then they should be the responsible party directly managing the projects.

[SRich]

NEC infrastructure Priorities

•Gateway(New Tunnels/Rebuild the Hudson tubes/Portal Brigde),create more blocks in the Hudson river tubes to allow more trains. Raise the tubes high to allow superliners in Penn.
•East River Tunnels Rebuild
•Penn station rebuild track/switches with concrete and raise the 15 mph limit to 80 mph , raise the catenary.
•Rebuild Penn Station building and platforms to allow superliners
•B&P Tunnel replacement
•Rehab of catenary system NY-DC to allow higher speeds
•4-tracking WAS to NYP.
•Inland routing NYP to BOS.
•Buy Metro North/ConnDT/MTBA part of NEC
•Upgrade NEC (BOS-DC) to 200 mph
•Buy CSX part of the empire corridor and electrify it with catenary and upgrade it to 125 mph
•Rebuild the empire connection from MNRR to Tunnel with dubble track and electrify it with Catenary with speeds to 100 mph, including the bridge
•Get the entire NEC in a state of good repair
• Buy ROW between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh (perhaps more direct route with double stack electryfied tunnels) and extend the keystone service to Pittsburgh
•Electrify the springfield line

Chigaco Area infrastructure Priorities

•Buy ROW and lay double track from south point of CUS to the Amtrak owned portion of the Chicago–Detroit Line. With speeds up to 125 mph.
•Rebuild CUS infrastructure with highspeed turnouts and concrete ties.
•Upgrade Signal system of CUS to one system.
•If Amtrak manges to have a owned ROW/Track on the Michigan Service. Electrify CUS to Detroit (double Stack height to allow freight trains under it)

California Infrastructure Priorities

• Rebuild/upgrade Amtrak owned track/maintenance facilities
• Take share of CHSRA and lay foundation to let Amtrak run the trains/become a part infraowner. Build it to LA with possible future extentions


Not a priority but good for the future of Amtrak (LD) to compete with airlines

Build a new electrified corridor of 6 tracks from DC to LA
with speeds up to 350 mph.
Lay a concrete base (like LZB in Germany ore some parts in the Netherlands) with tracks mounted on the concrete instead of sleepers.
the corridor can have local stops on stations ore even a overnight sleeper.

For Day operations 4 track are for passengers trains and 2 for freight trains. In the night 2 tracks for passengers and 4 for freight
Freight/Passenger trains must operate at 125 mph ore greater. The new corridor wil be Amtrak owned but Freight can have track rights.