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  • Where would $2b do the most good?

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1536851  by orulz
 
orulz wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:15 pm 4. Long Bridge/Virginia
Virginia has just committed a huge chunk of state funding toward passenger rail. Doubling down in Virginia by dropping an extra $2b on passenger rail on top of what the state is already planning to spend could provide the spark to turn what currently looks to be a generational, incremental program into a "big bang" with something like full buildout (including electrification) down to Richmond in 10 years.

So, in case you can't tell, number 4 (Long Bridge/Virginia) is my pick.
Expanding on the thought from above, the VRE Fredericksburg line would be effectively electrified. They could get bilevel EMUs that can handle low and high level platforms, like the trains Caltrain is buying, and run through onto the MARC Penn line. It seems that the Caltrain trains (Stadler KISS) would fit just fine through both the First Street *and* B&P Tunnels?

Meanwhile, the Manassas line would be a complication until it too can be electrified. Options:
1. Trains could continue using diesel equipment and run through onto Camden/Brunswick (Diesel trains are slower, and this would hurt the frequency of the line)
2. Tack on a locomotive somewhere south of Alexandria after the tracks split, like a new infill station at Van Dorn Street/Landmark (but this would mean at least a few minutes of stop over and passengers wouldn't like it)
3. Somehow fit an extra platform at Alexandria and short-turn there with a transfer to Metro or the Fredericksburg Line. (Is there room? Would passengers resent having to make this connection?)
 #1536859  by Tadman
 
Slow stuff and reliability stuff. We're not ready yet for HSR. We're ready to deal with problems like the the NYP tunnels, Northwest Indiana, and leaving the station on time, every time, with no "least crappy car" in the consist.

If the chargers order for long distance hasn't been cut yet, cut that business off. Thoroughly rebuild 200 SD60/70. Put HEP skids in all baggage cars.

Don't just give the money to Amtrak, as they have their own inertia and ideas, and don't do the best job of serving communities far from Washington. Fund expansions of local efforts like NM Railrunner or startups like a Denver-Cheyenne operation. Look to operations that take a very pragmatic approach.

Consider new starts like Tucson-Phoenix and consider a private operator like Virgin/BL.
 #1536952  by Suburban Station
 
1) Federal portion of Portal Bridge
2) Federal Portion of Long Bridge
3) CREATE or other Chicago access projects to allow current trains to run on time (to/from MI and the East) and add new trains
4) electrification of LAX-SAN
 #1536996  by ThirdRail7
 
I agree that 2 billion doesn't amount to much these days so I'm with the small, incremental crowd and I would put it towards:
Wash wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:22 pm
6: Uhhh...longer passing sidings?

9: Uhhh...longer passing sidings again?

10: Uhhh...more longer passing sidings?
Yes, more passing sidings that are longer.
 #1536999  by dgvrengineer
 
With the airlines asking for $50 billion and another $10 billion for airports, I think we need to set our sights higher and at least match the airline request. After all, $50 billion barely covers the NE Corridor needs. I agree that funds should go to the second Long Bridge, fixing Chicago to Porter, Grand Crossing, new tracks to add capacity on single track routes and bypass yards, flyovers at junctions and similar projects to avoid or remedy slow speed areas.
 #1537227  by Wash
 
If we're talking Virginia, more electrification and additional track capacity South of DC could lead to so much through-running of VRE trains into Maryland and MARC trains into Virginia that it might be worth sinking a couple billion into merging the two systems into one DC area commuter rail operation (maybe the merged organization could be called the "DC Area Rail Express", or DARE for short).
 #1537251  by Jeff Smith
 
I like the idea of electrification extension. Has anyone mentioned the Springfield line in this regard? It's Amtrak owned which eliminates any host railroad complications as in NS, and would have the benefit of eliminating an engine change at New Haven.

I'm not quite sure what the VA investment in their portion of the NEC includes, but if VA ends up with ownership of any of the ROW, exclusive tracks, etc. then yes, I think electrification is a good idea as far as the owned ROW goes. However, you do still end up with an engine change where that is, whether Fredericksburg or Manassas, and the added cost of support staff at those locations.

Now, if Amtrak were to invest in ALP-45DP type equipment, they could run the balance of the trip on the ACL/SCL/RF&P whatever it is to Richmond, and VRE would have a nice electrified line out to those two terminals. They'd probably still need an engine change for Norfolk, and other VA/NC destinations.

I think this could generate some critical mass to true HSR along the east coast, starting with NC. Imagine a 125+ MPH train from NYP down to Florida, what kind of ridership that might generate, and the traffic relief along the 95 corridor.

Now, no one's thankfully suggested electrifying the MNRR Hudson line LOL. Above Croton-Harmon maybe, as long as it doesn't cost MNRR a dime. But Amtrak would need DM equipment just like the M8's or ALP's.
 #1537258  by scratchyX
 
Wash wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:11 am If we're talking Virginia, more electrification and additional track capacity South of DC could lead to so much through-running of VRE trains into Maryland and MARC trains into Virginia that it might be worth sinking a couple billion into merging the two systems into one DC area commuter rail operation (maybe the merged organization could be called the "DC Area Rail Express", or DARE for short).
you mean richard layman's RACER concept?
http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.co ... g-and.html
 #1537287  by mtuandrew
 
Virginia owns ROW from Washington Union Station to at least Acca Yard in Richmond, maybe all the way to Richmond Main Street Station, then again from Collier Yard (Petersburg) to Norlina, NC. It’s theoretical high-speed rail and could sit there empty (or under-used) for another fifty years, but it’s there.

It does not own NS track or right-of-way, though it would make sense to purchase the track from Alexandria to Manassas (excepting Van Dorn Yard.)
 #1537299  by east point
 
Electrification in VA ? Think this thing thru. Potholes work is not an exact science. First find any buried cables. Is there any ? Pothole equipment will hit impediments mainly rock but RR have been known to bury wreck debris near tracks. Pothole equipment has to be rail mounted at difficult access locations. That ties up one track section for several weeks. Potholes that cannot be place where engineered will require more engineering including CAT changes. Note that the New Haven BOS work took more time for all these problems.

Since these tracks will also be used by CSX the CAT will probably need top of rail to wire clearance about 24 feet. That for double stack clearances. May require some bridges raised . Now do you think CSX would want all that headache ?

But wait . VA will only own one track. Do not believe CSX will allow CAT to be over their track or the delays building it. That means that a third track will be needed east of the present tracks to be an electrified VA track.

Without eminent Domain filed against CSX it will never happen. All the way to to the Supreme court will take 3 years.
 #1537317  by mtuandrew
 
Virginia owns fully half of the ex-RFP right-of-way, meaning they could install one, two, or four tracks without CSX having anything to do with it. The eventual goal is to take all passenger traffic off CSX. Only exception is Ashland, VA, where there is only room for two tracks with frequent grade crossings, and honestly there should be a tunnel or freight bypass.
 #1537335  by Alex M
 
Reading about the deal that VA made with CSX, the segment of the old C&O from Richmond to Doswell is kept by CSX. If the freights that do not have to pick up or set out at Acca could be re-routed over this line then connect at AM junction to the Bellwood sub on to the A line at Centralia. If needed, the James River sub bridge at the triple crossing could theoretically be raised to allow for double stack trains.
 #1537349  by Jeff Smith
 
mtuandrew wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:41 pm Virginia owns fully half of the ex-RFP right-of-way, meaning they could install one, two, or four tracks without CSX having anything to do with it. The eventual goal is to take all passenger traffic off CSX. Only exception is Ashland, VA, where there is only room for two tracks with frequent grade crossings, and honestly there should be a tunnel or freight bypass.
I remember previous discussions about Ashland being a bottle neck. Pity. I wonder how SEHSR was planning to get around that (or were they just occupied with the Manassas line?). I think a bypass potentially works skirting around the downtown perhaps. Still, electrification makes sense at least as far as F'Burg, and a DM like the ALP45DP could bridge the distance. As far as Atlantic Coast Service HSR is concerned, you could just switch to the Charger or the Brightline Charger variant at Richmond, but the point is getting Acela type service at least as far as Richmond.

If there's to be a successful HSR extension (and not the CaliCrap (TM/Copyright all rights reserved el Jefe 2020) version) in the US, the 95 corridor is it.