Amtrak Has an Image Problem

[John_Perkowski]

Turn the running of stations over to the local community , wether businesses or volunteers/ local council.

The Kansas City/St Louis run has several of those locally operated stations. In several cases, the building is preserved, but unavailable for passengers, except for under the roofway, if any.

[Tadman]

Messrs. Benton and Perkowski are spot on. It’s like they don’t want to try. Anybody who runs a newspaper stand knows this stuff. It’s massively frustrating.

[wigwagfan]

I don't think that it helps that there is a disconnect between certain rail enthusiasts who want to portray passenger rail as a 21st century solution to intercity travel problems, and certain rail enthusiasts who want to preserve the history of 1800s and early 1900s era railroad stations, no matter how functional (or functionally obsolete) they are.

While I'm not one to suggest we start demolishing 100+ year old train stations en masse, some of these stations are simply functionally obsolete and should be replaced/repurposed. As much as Portland's Union Station is beautiful, it's a hot, miserable and crowded building with very few amenities, and its management is increasingly hostile to the public by cordoning large portions of this publicly owned, taxpayer funded building off-limits to its owners. I've noticed other stations posting large signs making it clear that these often municipal owned buildings are unwelcome to its residents and visitors EXCEPT those with an Amtrak ticket, even though Amtrak corporate is not footing the bill and paying the property taxes on these buildings that should be welcoming people regardless of their current days' travels. Telling me I'm not welcome is not a good way to convince me to buy a ticket for tomorrow.

[Tadman]

I don't think that it helps that there is a disconnect between certain rail enthusiasts who want to portray passenger rail as a 21st century solution to intercity travel problems, and certain rail enthusiasts who want to preserve the history of 1800s and early 1900s era railroad stations, no matter how functional (or functionally obsolete) they are.

While I'm not one to suggest we start demolishing 100+ year old train stations en masse, some of these stations are simply functionally obsolete and should be replaced/repurposed. As much as Portland's Union Station is beautiful, it's a hot, miserable and crowded building with very few amenities, and its management is increasingly hostile to the public by cordoning large portions of this publicly owned, taxpayer funded building off-limits to its owners. I've noticed other stations posting large signs making it clear that these often municipal owned buildings are unwelcome to its residents and visitors EXCEPT those with an Amtrak ticket, even though Amtrak corporate is not footing the bill and paying the property taxes on these buildings that should be welcoming people regardless of their current days' travels. Telling me I'm not welcome is not a good way to convince me to buy a ticket for tomorrow.

Again totally spot on. The 20th century limited is not coming back and we should quit pretending it is. Heavy corridor and regional trains have a chance, but not if we tie them into the Builder or Lakeshore, which are perpetually late and ragged.

As for the stations, they a poster child for awful first impressions. I feel like this in a lot of Amtrak stations: "Hi, sit down, shut up, follow directions, we will march to your train when you are told, do not expect any predicatability". In Europe, there is very little interface between the railroad personnel and passengers at the stations, you go to the platform and wait (seriously, no officious Amtrak employee leads you around like school children) and/or grab a snack. You can walk the entire terminal.

[SouthernRailway]

I find Amtrak stations to be pretty awful. NY Penn Station, Charlotte and Greenville, SC certainly do not provide a first-class experience for first-class passengers. It makes it harder to pitch a great experience to potential customers if they have to deal with those. “The sleeping cars themselves are nice, and the food used to be good, but the stations are rough.”

Boston South Station and 30th Street Station in Philadelphia are some that pass muster.

[Tadman]

The stations are another important point. It's your first impression. How is it allowed to be a crappy experience? But it is almost every time. Consider why Brightline invested so much in their stations.

They could've just put in a CTA-style island platform with a canopy and saved a hundred million dollars, but instead they invested in a giant climate-controlled space with elevators and escalators and a coffee shop and security screening. Because you'll wait 30-90 minutes for a train ride that might take the same time. You don't want to sit in the rain or be hassled by some a-hole. You don't want to be told by a completely out of touch rentacop to check in with the ticket agent who then asks why youre checking in.

You want less hassle, not more.

The average civilian doesn't ride a train or plane to ride a train or plane, they do it to arrive somewhere. The mode that gives them the least hassle wins.

[Jeff Smith]

I don't think that it helps that there is a disconnect between certain rail enthusiasts who want to portray passenger rail as a 21st century solution to intercity travel problems, and certain rail enthusiasts who want to preserve the history of 1800s and early 1900s era railroad stations, no matter how functional (or functionally obsolete) they are.

While I'm not one to suggest we start demolishing 100+ year old train stations en masse, some of these stations are simply functionally obsolete and should be replaced/repurposed. As much as Portland's Union Station is beautiful, it's a hot, miserable and crowded building with very few amenities, and its management is increasingly hostile to the public by cordoning large portions of this publicly owned, taxpayer funded building off-limits to its owners. I've noticed other stations posting large signs making it clear that these often municipal owned buildings are unwelcome to its residents and visitors EXCEPT those with an Amtrak ticket, even though Amtrak corporate is not footing the bill and paying the property taxes on these buildings that should be welcoming people regardless of their current days' travels. Telling me I'm not welcome is not a good way to convince me to buy a ticket for tomorrow.

Again totally spot on. The 20th century limited is not coming back and we should quit pretending it is. Heavy corridor and regional trains have a chance, but not if we tie them into the Builder or Lakeshore, which are perpetually late and ragged.

As for the stations, they a poster child for awful first impressions. I feel like this in a lot of Amtrak stations: "Hi, sit down, shut up, follow directions, we will march to your train when you are told, do not expect any predicatability". In Europe, there is very little interface between the railroad personnel and passengers at the stations, you go to the platform and wait (seriously, no officious Amtrak employee leads you around like school children) and/or grab a snack. You can walk the entire terminal.

WigWag reminds me of a comment Noel Weaver made on here years ago about those pining for the old NY Penn Station. Basically, he hated it. I guess he worked it in his NH days. He said it was hot, and impossible to hear any announcements. I seem to recall a literary quote as well about it being the "depths of hell". Sure, it looked pretty in pictures. That's probably about it, but since I was a single digit midget when it came down, I recall nothing about it.

For me, it really depends on the station. Light year's difference between NYP and NYG (aka GCT lol). New Haven has a pretty good station if meager amenities, Hartford is also nice looking, but they occupy the cramped area underneath the tracks and not the main building. Springfield has according to reports regained some of its past glory. The NH did a pretty good job with stations, but many have been converted to private businesses.

Hoping to get to Los Angeles, Portland, and Seattle this year, but at this point who knows.

Tad, I was a little disappointed Anderson didn't try to tackle these issues you talk about. Delta Dick was known for making Delta one of the best airlines at customer service and OTP. Instead, he tackled diners.

You mention the LSL; as far as I'm concerned, ALL of the NYP - CHI trains SUCK. Throw in the Sunset with that too.

[bostontrainguy]

You know, there is one that really does have a great image:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAHX33CNhSk

On my last Auto Train trip you couldn't help but notice that even the switching engines were immaculate. The cleanest B32-8WH you will ever see.

[mtuandrew]

You know, there is one that really does have a great image:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAHX33CNhSk

On my last Auto Train trip you couldn't help but notice that even the switching engines were immaculate. The cleanest B32-8WH you will ever see.

Wonder how much of that has to do with being a captive fleet where the same crew sees the same equipment at the same dedicated facilities weekly; how do you suppose the Downeaster compares in that sense?

[wigwagfan]

As for the stations, they a poster child for awful first impressions. I feel like this in a lot of Amtrak stations: "Hi, sit down, shut up, follow directions, we will march to your train when you are told, do not expect any predicatability". In Europe, there is very little interface between the railroad personnel and passengers at the stations, you go to the platform and wait (seriously, no officious Amtrak employee leads you around like school children) and/or grab a snack. You can walk the entire terminal.

Interestingly I took my first trip to New York in January and while I did fly from Portland to JFK I chose to take the LIRR into Penn Station, and also self-toured GCT (fortunately my hotel was literally smack in the middle of the two.) I don't really have much recollection of Penn Station other than a lot of walking and following the herd out of the building (it was, after all, 11:00 PM and I just wanted to crash.) GCT of course is a masterpiece.

But, let's compare GCT to my own Union Station.

GCT is a huge welcoming building. No velvet ropes and no huge signs saying where I can and cannot go. The public is encouraged to come in and shop and eat and just linger. I walked down to the MNCR platforms and despite enhanced security, I was not hassled - I was allowed to walk down and shoot a few pictures. There were places for the public to be. Tours are encouraged. I visited the station several times both on foot and by subway and was just amazed. And despite the Empire Shield active duty military on patrol...nobody stopped me, nobody questioned me. I was there to stand and look around. And I wasn't the only one.

Union Station (Portland) - upon entering the building there are ropes directing visitors to the ticket counter. Security Guards are ready to ask you what your business is. No ticket? No entry. What if I want to just tour this historic building? Sorry, no ticket no entry. Where can I buy a ticket? Go see Amtrak. What if I just want to check the place out? Nope, you need to leave or we're calling Portland Police. Is there somewhere I can sit down and eat? Not here. As I walk out, a homeless person begs me for money and won't leave me alone. On the sidewalk, several people are shooting up heroin. Across the street, homeless people completely cover the sidewalk in front of the now former Greyhound terminal that is fenced up and boarded up. Across the street from that is a "homeless shelter" that is also home to one of Portland's safe injection sites where the homeless can quasi-legally get their heroin high courtesy of nurses.

[David Benton]

Wigwag fan , is the little cafe with the train delivering food nearby still Near Portland Union?

[Jeff Smith]

That is so sad, WigWagFan. My girlfriend and I were in the preliminary stage of planning a cross-country LD trip from CHI to SEA via Portland (EB 27 connecting to Cascades 518) before COVID hit. I guess that's the only way we'd get to see the station...

[east point]

Image is the lowest of priorities now. We have to lobby congress to keep present Amtrak operating. The LD route demographics have many oldsters riding. That group is most likely to have fatal complications from Corona19, If the concern does not abate for older persons there will not be much traffic to support the LD route trains. However if a way to prevent Corona 19 many oldsters might want to get a last ride .?

[Tadman]

Wigwag fan is 100% spot on. I'm curious if any of this is mitigated by trying to keep out the heroin-using homeless population. But the same vibe permeates many Amtrak station.

I've found it fairly easy to move about bigger stations, but man, stay away from the platforms. What really gets me is the inconsistency of the policy.

Big stations:
Roam the waiting areas
Stay off platforms
Highly managed boarding

Medium stations:
Ticketed passengers only in waiting areas
Over-managed boarding (STL and ALB has two boarding lines some days that result from non-communicating employees)
Stay off platforms

Small stations, shelters:
No waiting areas available
Roam the platforms at will if accessible
Zero boarding procedure


Are the platforms cool to access or not??? Other than Amtrak, nobody cares, and many times platforms are used to access other exits, streets, platforms.

[mtuandrew]

Image is the lowest of priorities now. We have to lobby congress to keep present Amtrak operating. The LD route demographics have many oldsters riding. That group is most likely to have fatal complications from Corona19, If the concern does not abate for older persons there will not be much traffic to support the LD route trains. However if a way to prevent Corona 19 many oldsters might want to get a last ride .?

Quoting this into the coronavirus thread, because I have an offshoot response there. But yes, the only image that matters right now is Amtrak being responsible.