$25000 Ticket on the Chicago-Bloomington Run

[mtuandrew]

If this group was trying to prove a point, they proved it here

Other options that would work to transport several people in wheelchairs at once, now that Amtrak knows it should consider the necessity of doing so:
-creating “convertible” Superliner coach-baggage cars, which can either have windows shuttered closed and a flat floor, or windows clear and quick-install seats
-agreements with PV owners who have dining cars with loose seats
-removing a row of seating from some remaining 2+1 cafe/business cars

Any of these options do require crash-tested wheelchair restraints of course.

[rcthompson04]

If this group was trying to prove a point, they proved it here

Other options that would work to transport several people in wheelchairs at once, now that Amtrak knows it should consider the necessity of doing so:
-creating “convertible” Superliner coach-baggage cars, which can either have windows shuttered closed and a flat floor, or windows clear and quick-install seats
-agreements with PV owners who have dining cars with loose seats
-removing a row of seating from some remaining 2+1 cafe/business cars

Any of these options do require crash-tested wheelchair restraints of course.

They also require adequate staff who are trained for such a situation.

[ExCon90]

What if another unrelated person in a wheelchair happens to want to travel on the same day that a group is traveling? Does amtrak say "no"?

I would think that in that case Amtrak would say the same thing they would tell an able passenger: that train on that day is sold out. I don't see any discrimination there; they say that to lots of people every day.

[eolesen]

This is a short term problem. Once the Siemens cars are in service, the limits on accommodating wheelchairs should be minimized significantly.

No need to go creating new custom solutions when a proven one already exists...

[rcthompson04]

This is a short term problem. Once the Siemens cars are in service, the limits on accommodating wheelchairs should be minimized significantly.

No need to go creating new custom solutions when a proven one already exists...

Correct. This should be another example of why getting the new cars into service is a priority.

[Suburban Station]

“After further review, Amtrak has determined to suspend the policy in question. It was never meant to be applied to this situation and we apologize for that mistake. We are glad it has all worked out and we were able to accommodate our customers’ trip. We will do better next time. We are America’s Railroad and we want to provide more trips, not fewer.”

https://media.amtrak.com/2020/01/amtrak ... -railcars/

[STrRedWolf]

“After further review, Amtrak has determined to suspend the policy in question. It was never meant to be applied to this situation and we apologize for that mistake. We are glad it has all worked out and we were able to accommodate our customers’ trip. We will do better next time. We are America’s Railroad and we want to provide more trips, not fewer.”

https://media.amtrak.com/2020/01/amtrak ... -railcars/

Good to hear. I won't be surprised if the fee was for groups that wanted to reconfigure a train car more towards the various Milwaukee Road cars used for the Station to Station nomadic excursion train... but got applied to the extreme (and violating the ADA).

[eolesen]

ADA was never actually violated. Nobody was denied transportation, and reasonable accommodation was offered but declined.

[Suburban Station]

“After further review, Amtrak has determined to suspend the policy in question. It was never meant to be applied to this situation and we apologize for that mistake. We are glad it has all worked out and we were able to accommodate our customers’ trip. We will do better next time. We are America’s Railroad and we want to provide more trips, not fewer.”

https://media.amtrak.com/2020/01/amtrak ... -railcars/

Good to hear. I won't be surprised if the fee was for groups that wanted to reconfigure a train car more towards the various Milwaukee Road cars used for the Station to Station nomadic excursion train... but got applied to the extreme (and violating the ADA).

the whole thing smacks of unintended consequences. someone rolls out a nationwide policy without a great understanding of likely scenarios, call center agent applies policy, shocked in disbelief but passes on quote anyway. I'd guess the $25k is a revenue based number and not a cost number and a nationwide one at that (including high revenue NEC).

[mtuandrew]

the whole thing smacks of unintended consequences. someone rolls out a nationwide policy without a great understanding of likely scenarios, call center agent applies policy, shocked in disbelief but passes on quote anyway. I'd guess the $25k is a revenue based number and not a cost number and a nationwide one at that (including high revenue NEC).

And someone with friends in an advocacy group, rightly concerned that this is a new, rigid, discriminatory policy, ran this up the ladder and eventually to the press. Glad it was resolved.

[Tadman]

This handicapped group is not asking for anything unreasonable. Imagine if you had a married couple in wheelchairs, with the husband relying on the wife to give him his medicine.

Let's accept this as true and unpack it.

1. How will we cope with a large group of blind people? A specially designed fleet of blind cars?
2. How will we cope with a large group of service animals? A specially designed fleet of service animal cars with seats and relief spots?

We could go on and on until we come up with 492 special cars, equal to the entire A-1 fleet size.

We still haven't had anybody verify if a private car is a better solution. Many of them do not have bolted seats like Amtrak requires.

We still haven't had anybody verify if a charter bus is a better solution.

Amtrak is still "the bad guy".

[STrRedWolf]

ADA was never actually violated. Nobody was denied transportation, and reasonable accommodation was offered but declined.

A $25000 fee being "reasonable"? Reread this thread. Everyone else agrees it's not. (And if you stand by that, I'll have to index "reasonable" to being "not affordable by a normal person up to middle class").

[STrRedWolf]

Let's accept this as true and unpack it.

1. How will we cope with a large group of blind people? A specially designed fleet of blind cars?

That's a group rate with extra RedCap service needed to be brought on board. No "blind cars" needed.

2. How will we cope with a large group of service animals? A specially designed fleet of service animal cars with seats and relief spots?

That's also a group rate, and a slight modification to the bathrooms. This I can see a higher rate, but not too high.

We still haven't had anybody verify if a private car is a better solution. Many of them do not have bolted seats like Amtrak requires.

Plus, PV rules got tightened up enough that makes it not feasible.

We still haven't had anybody verify if a charter bus is a better solution.

NPR quoted the group in saying that the charter bus was not feasible and cost more than Amtrak.

[Backshophoss]

wHY HASN'T AMTRAK checked with the larger transit operators about their Para-transit securement systems for Wheelchairs??
These modular systems are easy to use, be trained on,and have attach points that would leave the floor flat,does include seat belt.

[phillyrube]

Amtrak just doesn't like people in wheelchairs. Few years back we rode Miami to Richmond, VA. Somewheres in the middle of Florida an old man in a wheelchair was lifted onboard, and placed in front of us. There were some brackets on the deck. No crew members ever came by to check on him. We took him to the bathroom and got him a snack. Guy was paraplegic, so needed assistance in the can. Being as there were 5 medics in our group, no worries with the bathroom. Least they could have done was get him a water and a bag of peanuts or something.