Amtrak ticket refund policies to change

[StLouSteve]

A leaked memo has Amtrak instituting more airline style ticketing practices including making more tickets nonrefundable or changeable.

I think this may lead to more riders avoiding Amtrak in favor of driving. Amtrak’s long distance service is simply too unreliable to have a draconian fare structure on top of all the other service shortfalls.

[Tadman]

Usually the air carriers are pretty good about full refunds if there is a major delay. I find it's pretty easy to walk up to a Delta or UAL desk, tell them that the delay is so bad that I'll miss my meeting and there is no further reason for the trip, and they refund pretty quickly. Whether or not Amtrak plans to do this is not clear yet, but it would be wise.

[exvalley]

I'm okay with this change.

According to the memo, these changes apply to the lowest fare categories. Specifically, the Saver fare will see the bulk of the changes. The Value fare will just see the 24 hour change window change to a 14 day window.

It is very reasonable to get more when you spend more. It is reasonable that the cheapest fares (for the same trip) have less flexibility than the more expensive fares. If Amtrak is going to take more of your money, it is incumbent upon them to give you some sort of value in exchange.

[Suburban Station]

I'm okay with this change.

According to the memo, these changes apply to the lowest fare categories. Specifically, the Saver fare will see the bulk of the changes. The Value fare will just see the 24 hour change window change to a 14 day window.

It is very reasonable to get more when you spend more. It is reasonable that the cheapest fares (for the same trip) have less flexibility than the more expensive fares. If Amtrak is going to take more of your money, it is incumbent upon them to give you some sort of value in exchange.

amtrak fares cost more which is why I would expect not to have these types of nickel and dime policies. I think this type of change is largely irrelevant for longer trips but for short trips it is just one more reason to take the bus which actually charge low enough fares that you understand why they do this. airlines use fees because fees are not subject to the same fees and taxes as tickets so, dollar for dollar, they keep more of he fee than ticket revenue. on the whole, this will further reduce ridership in short distance markets unless they plan to offer lower saver fares in exchange.

tren italia
"The Super Economy fare starts at ONLY € 9 !
Maximum discount.
Available up to train departure time.
The number of seats available is limited and subject to day of travel, trains and class of service .
No other discounts apply.
Changes
Before departure : not permitted.
After departure : not permitted.
Refunds
Before departure : not permitted
After departure : not permitted." https://us.trenitalia.it-inter.com/tren ... economy-en

ftr, naples to termini for tomorrow varies in price from 14 to 54 euros or roughly $16 to $60 dollars while amtrak philadelphia to NYP varies from $61 to $176

[Arborwayfan]

I see this as less of a problem for LD trains than for corridors. It would be nuts if fare policies like this one ended up leading most pax on the NEC to make reservations more than two weeks in advance. A big part of hte point of having frequent trains on a corridor is to let people leave town when they are ready, rather than picking a time in advance. To keep/make such corridors attractive to more pax, it should be possible to ride them more or less as a walkup passenger at a reasonable price. I don't know how the economics work on that, and I'm not making a business case. I'm making a public service case that more people will take the train esp for fairly short distances -- the ones where the train really can reduce congestion by drawing people out of their cars -- if it is very flexible.

[TomNelligan]

One more way to make the system less passenger-friendly. It's policies like this that lead me to fly Southwest (no charge for changes although you may pay a higher fare) whenever I'm aviating. Frequent train service in the Northeast Corridor is one of its major assets and this change would impose a financial penalty for taking an earlier or later train if your circumstances change.

[Suburban Station]

I see this as less of a problem for LD trains than for corridors. It would be nuts if fare policies like this one ended up leading most pax on the NEC to make reservations more than two weeks in advance. A big part of hte point of having frequent trains on a corridor is to let people leave town when they are ready, rather than picking a time in advance. To keep/make such corridors attractive to more pax, it should be possible to ride them more or less as a walkup passenger at a reasonable price. I don't know how the economics work on that, and I'm not making a business case. I'm making a public service case that more people will take the train esp for fairly short distances -- the ones where the train really can reduce congestion by drawing people out of their cars -- if it is very flexible.

yep, if the walkup fares were more reasonable, this change wouldn't be terrible. there might be one bright side, today amtrak does not charge you a change fee but they charge you the new fare. if the change fee is instead of the new fare the practical impact might be muted. in other words, today if you paid $37 they will let you change your ticket to the new $61 fare but if, instead, they charge you $10 to change your $37 ticket but keep that price, some people will benefit. I'm not terribly confident that's their goal though, and it seems likely they are going to try to stick it to you both ways ($10 fee plus the higher walkup fare).

[SouthernRailway]

I can fly from LGA to DCA or BOS on American and get same-day ticket changes for FREE if I'm in paid first class, and if I bought a coach ticket, FREE standby on earlier or later flights. I almost always am able to go standby on whatever flight I want, too.

Since Amtrak makes me buy a brand-new ticket at the last minute if I want to change trains, that's a huge disincentive to taking the train in the Northeast. To be competitive with airlines, Amtrak should have free same-day ticket changes for paid first class passengers and for people who have elite status in Amtrak Guest Rewards.

[exvalley]

I see a lot of arguments as to why Amtrak's fares should be lower, but not many arguments as to why you shouldn't get more flexibility if you are willing pay more for it.

[Suburban Station]

I see a lot of arguments as to why Amtrak's fares should be lower, but not many arguments as to why you shouldn't get more flexibility if you are willing pay more for it.

I think you're missing the point. amtrak's fares are high so you expect to get some flexibility with it. yes, some fares are higher than others but the value market is already 100% bus and car in the NEC due to amtrak's high prices. they're treating you like a bus passenger but charging premium fares. either a) lower the fares and raise fees or b) keep the premium pricing and allow flexibility. airlines charge fees for reasons that are not applicable to amtrak. and let's face it, the inflexible airlines like frontier will fly you 800 miles cheaper than amtrak will take you 90 miles.
Amtrak makes up a trivial share of the overall travel NEC market.

I can fly from LGA to DCA or BOS on American and get same-day ticket changes for FREE if I'm in paid first class, and if I bought a coach ticket, FREE standby on earlier or later flights. I almost always am able to go standby on whatever flight I want, too.

Since Amtrak makes me buy a brand-new ticket at the last minute if I want to change trains, that's a huge disincentive to taking the train in the Northeast. To be competitive with airlines, Amtrak should have free same-day ticket changes for paid first class passengers and for people who have elite status in Amtrak Guest Rewards.

I believe first class passengers are exempt from fees but certainly allowing coach passengers to ride free on a later train would be a huge benefit. for short distance trips having to be married to a time slot is one of the primary reasons you wouldn't take the train.

[exvalley]

I think you're missing the point. amtrak's fares are high ... they're treating you like a bus passenger but charging premium fares.

No, they aren't treating you like a bus passenger. Amtrak lets you avoid traffic jams all while sitting in a MUCH larger seat with MUCH greater seat pitch often traveling at MUCH higher speeds while allowing you to roam about the train as you see fit.

Are Amtrak's fares more expensive than the bus? Absolutely. This is because you are getting something of value in exchange for paying more. Which is exactly my point...

[exvalley]

I can fly from LGA to DCA or BOS on American and get same-day ticket changes for FREE if I'm in paid first class, and if I bought a coach ticket, FREE standby on earlier or later flights. I almost always am able to go standby on whatever flight I want, too.

Exactly my point. If you pay for first class on American you can get a same-day ticket change for free. In other words, you get something of value in exchange for paying the higher fare.

As far as standby and coach tickets are concerned, American charges a fee of $75 to fly standby, which is an important detail. Their rules are here: https://www.aa.com/i18n/plan-travel/ext ... travel.jsp

Generally speaking, airline ticketing rules are more strict than Amtrak. So you may not want to cite the airlines as the example for Amtrak to follow if you don't like restrictions.

My take on this is very simple. If you pay more you should get more. Amtrak is trying to add value to the more expensive tickets, which seems more than fair.

[Suburban Station]

I can fly from LGA to DCA or BOS on American and get same-day ticket changes for FREE if I'm in paid first class, and if I bought a coach ticket, FREE standby on earlier or later flights. I almost always am able to go standby on whatever flight I want, too.

Exactly my point. If you pay for first class on American you can get a same-day ticket change for free. In other words, you get something of value in exchange for paying the higher fare.

As far as standby and coach tickets are concerned, American charges a fee of $75 to fly standby, which is an important detail. Their rules are here: https://www.aa.com/i18n/plan-travel/ext ... travel.jsp

Generally speaking, airline ticketing rules are more strict than Amtrak. So you may not want to cite the airlines as the example for Amtrak to follow if you don't like restrictions.

My take on this is very simple. If you pay more you should get more. Amtrak is trying to add value to the more expensive tickets, which seems more than fair.

Again, missing the point I think.
The main reason why airline style fees are not the right move are various:
A) not all airlines are the same
B) american is garbage so why mimic a trash airline. Not sure why anyone other than business class would fly them. High prices, surly customer services, unfriendly policies. Theres a reason southwest carries more people domestically I suppose.
C) trains arent planes, specifically people use them differently. Flights arent competing with cars and buses, trains are.
D) by riding amtrak you've already paid more. Since you can afford more, you can afford options.why get nickel and dimed when you can save money and drive or take the bus
E) by riding the acela you will save time and will have trains held in order to get you to your destination

I actually referenced another train company. Those types of policies are often associated with low fares.
For example, I will be flying to the carribean in a couple weeks for 20 bucks more than the price of a walkup ticket to ny tomorrow. I dont expect any extras on that trip. If I pay amtraks fare to ny, which at its absolute cheapest, is still three times the bus, i expect the train to be fast, clean, on time, and flexible. There's a reason amtrak performs poorly in the overall travel market and it is because they can't deliver on what people want out of train service. I'd also be surprised if this ends up generating more revenue than it costs unless this is a precursor to the low fare all stops service.

[Suburban Station]

On the cheapest travel option — the “saver” tickets — you won’t be able to adjust your travel plans more than 24 hours from the time you book. As it stands now, you can cancel or change your tickets at any time and get back a voucher at 75% of the original cost.

Meanwhile the “value” fares — which can currently be cancelled for a full refund up to 8 days before your trip — would be subject to a 25% cancellation fee at any time.

https://billypenn.com/2019/12/16/amtrak ... n-tickets/

[exvalley]

The main reason why airline style fees are not the right move are various: [SNIP]

You are introducing a lot of arguments that don't address my point. My contention is thus: If Amtrak offers tickets at different price points for the same exact seat on the same exact train, the more expensive ticket should offer something of value in exchange for the higher price. In Amtrak's case, they are offering increased flexibility. They aren't exactly blazing a new path. Greyhound and the airlines are doing this already. Greyhound, for example, has three different levels of tickets that come with an increase in benefits with an increase in price.