Why do trains spend so long stopped in Washington?

[SouthernRailway]

Is the reason for spending 30 minutes or more stopped in Washington solely to change locomotives, or are there more reasons?

I don’t recall locomotive changes in New Haven pre-electrification to Boston taking so long.

On my train, it took 30 minutes to change locomotives. Then new passengers boarded. Then software was updated. Total time: about an hour.

Why can’t Amtrak speed up the stops in Washington? With the increasing amount of traffic between the Northeast and Virginia, surely shorter dwell times would help ridership.

Thanks

[STrRedWolf]

It's 30 minutes to yank the electric engine off the front of the train set and put a diesel in it's place, connect any power and brake lines needed, the perform a brake test. I don't know how far the caternary line goes in the tunnel on the thru tracks, but it definitely doesn't reach as far as L'Efant Plaza. I would imagine a work engine grabbing the electric, moving it out of the way, and having the diesel come up from behind... in a not-quite-well-lit tunnel. I can assume the minimum for Washington is 30 minutes, depending on track conditions and direction the train is headed.

For the Pennsylvanian in Philadelphia, it's a flat 30, because the electrics are effectively towing the train set's cars in reverse (while at the southern end of the set) from New York... then dropping them off for a diesel to back up, hook to the northern "front" end, connect everything, do the brake test, load everyone from the station, and go. You don't have that V-shaped motion of travel at Washington. Only in Philly.

[DutchRailnut]

These days the Blue flag/law is strictly enforced so for each move the tower or dispatcher has to lock out track , blue lights applied etc then again and again and again.

[TomNelligan]

I don’t recall locomotive changes in New Haven pre-electrification to Boston taking so long.

It didn't. Before electrification, Amtrak typically allowed ten to twenty minutes for the engine change at New Haven. The exact interval varied between trains but most were on the lower end of that range. Back in the steam heat era of the 1950s when HEP connections weren't an issue, the New Haven Railroad scheduled most Boston-New York trains for a ten minute stop at New Haven, although for a few premier trains like the Merchants Limited and Yankee Clipper the schedule called for the engine change to be accomplished in just four minutes. That must have required some serious choreography on the part of the engine and ground crews.

[AmtrakLocomotiveEngineer]

There's much more going on in WAS compared to NHV.

Also, don't forget that many trains have additional 'padding" built into their schedules.

[JoeG]

What makes connecting HEP slower than connecting steam lines? I would figure that steam lines are hot and the HEP jumpers are just plugs. Seems like I'm missing something.

[Backshophoss]

The HEP has to be turned off and "made safe" before touching the plugs/cables,after switching the power(motor/P42) and every thing connected ,
they check for the T?L complete light is on, before restoring the HEP to the train.
Then there's the standing Air Brake test,and making sure all the water fill doors are closed before air lines are recharged
Air is used to provide pressure to water systems in the cars.

[arthur d.]

It's Washington. Nothing moves very quickly there.

[R&DB]

PRR used to change locos on what is now NJT's North Jersey Coast Line (then NY&LB) at South Amboy in 7 minutes or less. Granted the HEP requirements (electric vs steam) were different, but the real time difference is most likely due to rules and regulations. From the late 1800's through the 1960's this route saw over 100 trains a day (PRR, CNJ passenger and freight) and almost half needed engine change at South Amboy.

So why can't Amtrak do it quicker on through trains? Say 15min for power change and 15 for passenger loading, total 30.

[Nasadowsk]

They do it faster in Europe, where they have HEP, safety rules, unions, etc. And oh yes, sometimes a catenary voltage changes as the power gets moved about.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Amtrak trains that are heading continuing south of DC are stopped just north of where several tracks narrow down to two tracks and the diesel engines waiting to continue the rest of the trip are often waiting on parallel tracks facing south. A few minutes after the train that starts out further north arrives at Union Station, the motor is cut off from the train and proceeds south for a little bit and then reverses back north and sits either at the station or probably goes to Ivy City Yard. Now, it's the diesel locomotives turn to proceed south of its parallel track in relation to where it's southbound train is and then once it is on the track of the train that it will pull for the duration of the journey south of Union Station in DC, it will back up north and be attached to the train. There is a lot of time in the schedule in DC for southbounds continuing to the Southeast to accommodate the engine change as well as late running trains. Amtrak is considering buying dual powered diesel/catenary locomotives and that would be great for extensions of Northeast Regionals as well as the Palmetto and the Carolinian. It would benefit the long distance trains as well, although I think the 75+ straight diesel charger order will make up all of the long distance routes. There's other rail traffic at Union Station.

[John_Perkowski]

Admin note:

A certain member found his post deleted, and found he had earned some consequences.

Because of that, other follow on posts were deleted without prejudice.

Thought you should know.

[twropr]

Keep in mind that at WUS there are other activities going on besides engine changes.
Correct me if I am wrong (I haven't been there in several years), but cars are watered and inspected, toilets drained and commissary restocked. Sometimes SILVER METEOR #98 gets out within 20 min. if everything goes right and there are not conflicting activities on other tracks.
I might also add that southbound trains are occasionally delayed due to the diesel engine crew having problems initializing the PTC needed to go over CSX and, in some cases, also NS.
Andy

[STrRedWolf]

Amtrak trains that are heading continuing south of DC are stopped just north of where several tracks narrow down to two tracks and the diesel engines waiting to continue the rest of the trip are often waiting on parallel tracks facing south. A few minutes after the train that starts out further north arrives at Union Station, the motor is cut off from the train and proceeds south for a little bit and then reverses back north and sits either at the station or probably goes to Ivy City Yard. Now, it's the diesel locomotives turn to proceed south of its parallel track in relation to where it's southbound train is and then once it is on the track of the train that it will pull for the duration of the journey south of Union Station in DC, it will back up north and be attached to the train. There is a lot of time in the schedule in DC for southbounds continuing to the Southeast to accommodate the engine change as well as late running trains. Amtrak is considering buying dual powered diesel/catenary locomotives and that would be great for extensions of Northeast Regionals as well as the Palmetto and the Carolinian. It would benefit the long distance trains as well, although I think the 75+ straight diesel charger order will make up all of the long distance routes. There's other rail traffic at Union Station.

Now that eats up time. You gotta wait for both engines to travel the next track over just to get to the front of the train? That's just bad.

I would of thought there would be a diesel and a pusher/work engine on the same track as regular train set was on, just past the track interlock in the tunnel (assuming there is one). They'd disconnect, have the pusher haul out the engine out onto a separate track, then reconfig the interlock to let the diesel go north to connect up to the train, perform testing, etc before hauling the set out. Having the equipment ready to go...

It's the diesel. They can't let it idle in the tunnel. It has to stay outside. Ugh.

[Tadman]

They do it faster in Europe, where they have HEP, safety rules, unions, etc. And oh yes, sometimes a catenary voltage changes as the power gets moved about.

This. They take forever because they can. Who is holding them accountable for taking forever? Nobody. There is no check and balance.