The future of sleepers

[Greg Moore]

Are they at least making up the beds now? The last time we took a sleeper (couple of years ago on the Silvers) they just put a folded blanket on the sheeted bed. Has that changed back to the way it used to be?

I BELIEVE (and now I'm trying to remember) they will make it up if you ask, but they claim passengers prefer to see the blanket in the wrap as "proof" it's clean. I 1/2 believe that. I don't believe I made a bed on the last few of my trips.

[mtuandrew]

Fair question. Personally, I find the upper bunk on Viewliners, with both mattresses.. VERY comfortable and the train rocks me to sleep.

I personally sleep well and then love taking a shower in the morning before arriving.

That’s the answer I wanted to hear, thanks. By “both mattresses” do you mean that you physically take the lower bunk’s mattress and put it up top, along with the upper mattress?

[Greg Moore]

Even if all the above-mentioned wrinkles can be ironed out (punctuality in particular), a massive marketing effort will be necessary. Business travelers today tend to not even think about overnight travel by rail; the only people who even remember the Broadway/Century/Panama Ltd. era have long since retired.

Ayup, that's a big part of my thought, they'd absolutely have to market this as a business option.

[Greg Moore]

Fair question. Personally, I find the upper bunk on Viewliners, with both mattresses.. VERY comfortable and the train rocks me to sleep.

I personally sleep well and then love taking a shower in the morning before arriving.

That’s the answer I wanted to hear, thanks. By “both mattresses” do you mean that you physically take the lower bunk’s mattress and put it up top, along with the upper mattress?

I don't, I let the car attendant do it!
Actually, that's the default. In the day configuration the lower bunk mattress is already on the top bunk, but generally folded over. So they just unfold it, make sure it has sheets and blankets and it's good to go.

Only once did I find they had totally removed it and put it on the lower seat...

[STrRedWolf]

The point would be to design routes and market routes there 100% of the travel is in the evening/night, i.e time when you're already sleeping or not working.

That said, you are 100% right, the biggest issue I think in the marketing and making it viable would be the punctuality issue.

And yes, even on the NEC it's something Amtrak needs to work on.

I'm with you on that one. If it's between 8-16 hours on the train overnight and can be done cheaply enough (just a comfortable bed, a fan, and maybe a vendo-mat car with a microwave), I'm in and I bet a *lot* of others can be done too.

I can see a marking campaign. Filmed right outside BWI...
"Hey you! Flying out for a meeting the next day?" Person nods. "Why not sleep on the move?" Quick slide to a cramped airline seat. "No, not that way!" Slide to a sleeper "This way! Amtrak Overnight Sleeper service. The better way to business travel." Scene transitions to the train traveling. "ALL ABOARD, AMERICA! ALL ABOARD, AMTRAK!"

(Oh gawd, the old style commercials, I just teared up...)

[SouthernRailway]

Amtrak does basically zero marketing for many its long-distance trains, so many people in towns that the trains serve are unaware of them. Perhaps marketing to business people is one possibility, but any marketing at all would surely impact ridership.

[JoeG]

The single daily train (sometimes only 3x/wk.) makes marketing difficult. A guy decides to give Amtrak a chance. He discovers 1) he has to go to a station in a sketchy part of town at 3 am and 2) The train is likely to be very late,which makes 1) even more of an issue.

Back in the day, people sometimes had to catch 3 am trains but there was usually a station with an employee in it. Now, of course,many (most?) Amtrak stations are unmanned and many have no comfortable and secure waiting areas.

[SouthernRailway]

True. But there’s such a limited supply of seats and bedroom space available on Amtrak long-distance trains that all marketing needs to cause is the sale of a few more tickets. Can’t be that hard to do that.

[SouthernRailway]

To be a viable mode for business travel, Amtrak would need to really upgrade some of its stations.

A regular business traveler won’t want to be at an unstaffed station, in a bad part of town, late at night.

I’m looking at doing a 3am train from DC to NY instead of paying an astronomical amount for a few hours of sleep in a hotel room and the prospect of even that is off-putting, even from one of Amtrak’s most lively and nicest stations.

[JoeG]

I once took the Executive Sleeper from NYP. It left at 2 or 3 AM and I got there after midnight. NYP is the busiest Amtrak station, and is open all night. Even so it seemed kind of creepy. Also, for me, trying to sleep on a stationary train was for some reason harder than on a moving train. Even so I wish the Executive Sleeper was back. The trip from NYP to WAS is too short for a good night in a sleeper but having a couple more hours to sleep would probably make it more pleasant--despite my initial trouble falling asleep.

[mtuandrew]

To be a viable mode for business travel, Amtrak would need to really upgrade some of its stations.

A regular business traveler won’t want to be at an unstaffed station, in a bad part of town, late at night.

I’m looking at doing a 3am train from DC to NY instead of paying an astronomical amount for a few hours of sleep in a hotel room and the prospect of even that is off-putting, even from one of Amtrak’s most lively and nicest stations.

This is exactly where the Amtrak/Lyft partnership would shine. Having a guaranteed ride within five minutes of arrival at the station (with no-show fees waived due to Amtrak’s abysmal timing) would help me feel far more comfortable with late-night arrivals and industrial areas.

That’s not to say Amtrak shouldn’t staff and improve all of their stations. For one, security: I’m a reasonably fit white man and far less likely to be either harassed or questioned than travelers who are women or people of color. For two, passenger comfort in ill weather is an issue. For three, having a bathroom available is really a must. I cannot fathom having a beautiful, restful sleeper ride only to discover that there’s no restroom at 4am in West Industryville at -10° windchill, and the Lyft drivers are all asleep.

[Greg Moore]

I think all good points about staffed stations, etc. But, I'll also point out, for the city pairs I have in mind, they all already have staffed stations and honestly, most of the ones that don't, probably aren't going to attract much of a business type customer to begin with.

So, let's just say, that's a problem (i.e. lots of customers at a station that isn't currently staffed) Amtrak would probably like to have.

As for limited supply of bedroom space, that's the "now" I'm talking about a possible future (that could be started with the sleepers coming off the assembly line.)

[bostontrainguy]

I BELIEVE (and now I'm trying to remember) they will make it up if you ask, but they claim passengers prefer to see the blanket in the wrap as "proof" it's clean. I 1/2 believe that. I don't believe I made a bed on the last few of my trips.

Oh yeah, but it's fine to put the pillow that you put your face on, on a seat that has been sat on by hundreds of other people's butts and feet and dirty shoes!

If they want to talk about proof of cleanliness, put the pillow in a plastic bag!

[mtuandrew]

I think all good points about staffed stations, etc. But, I'll also point out, for the city pairs I have in mind, they all already have staffed stations and honestly, most of the ones that don't, probably aren't going to attract much of a business type customer to begin with.

So, let's just say, that's a problem (i.e. lots of customers at a station that isn't currently staffed) Amtrak would probably like to have.

As for limited supply of bedroom space, that's the "now" I'm talking about a possible future (that could be started with the sleepers coming off the assembly line.)

Would sure be nice to have a larger supply of sleeper cars too. I mean that in all senses - accessible (handicap) bedrooms, family bedrooms, regular bedrooms, double roomettes, and single roomettes or pod sleeper seats*. There’s no opportunity to try to make up the loss per berth by adding more berths; after all, two bedrooms at $400 each makes Amtrak more money than one bedroom at $600.

* are there different rules for the number of cars a coach attendant can watch, vs the number of cars a sleeping car attendant can watch? Sorry if I’m not using the right terminology. Regardless, if Amtrak sells a car full of semi-private lay-flat seats that aren’t technically in a sleeper car, might there be one less person required and a labor savings?

[electricron]

I thought I killed the lay flat seat car months ago, but it is back once again.
Just keeping it simple, the fact remains that Amtrak can squeeze more bunks into a car than they can lay flat seats. As long as that fact holds true, Amtrak would have to charge more for a lay flat seat than for a sleeper roomette just to break even.

Congress would go crazy if Amtrak started losing money on lay flat seats vs regular seats or roomettes. Congress, both democrats and republicans, is not going to like subsidizing lay flat seats for the rich - who are quite capable paying for it. Amtrak would have to charge revenue neutral fares for the fewer seats in a car resulting from lay flat seats, and that would require Amtrak charging more than for a roomette.

We have discuss specifics on the number of seats, bunks, and lay flat seats than an Amtrak rail car could possibly hold in other threads. I suggest a quick search to find them.

Getting this back onto topic, many European sleeper cars remaining in service; like Nightjet, Railjet, etc.; have a minimum of three bunks per compartment and up to six bunks per compartment. Your bunk is sold, numbered, and assigned individually. You may or may not have others outside your party in your compartment. It's their way to try to reduce costs. I doubt Amtrak would choose to follow the European scheme soon, but a conversation about it would be far more appropriate than one about lay flat chairs in this thread, imho.