Amtrak and TRE Dispatching Fort Worth to Dallas

[Tadman]

Who does dispatching of the TRE main between Dallas and Fort Worth? Today I'm on 22. We had every opportunity to leave Fort Worth eastbound on time, but they put a commuter train in front of us making all stops to Dallas. Then they stopped us and let a westbound past, then stopped again and lest another eastbound in front of us, then another eastbound.

What about this make sense? We are now 30 minutes late and should've just left Fort Worth in front of that first eastbound commuter train.

[frequentflyer]

1. You are on TRE track. Their track, their trains, their rules. Amtrak knew of this possibility going in. Rumor has it more sidings will be added.

2. Still a better deal than trying to backup through one of the busiest RR intersections in the country.

3. Enjoy the rest of your trip. Go to Texarkana railcam on youtube and watch yourself on the cam.

[Tadman]

That was my next question, how does it compare to the old route. I know nothing of the old route. I've probably done this ride 4-6 times in each direction and I don't think I've ever been on the old route. Even though my old office (and now my customer) is in Fort Worth, I sometimes would cab it to/from Dallas because it's far faster mid-day.

But going back to the current route, you'd think Amtrak would, as part of paying money to use these tracks, stipulate they don't get put in the hole for umpteen commuter trains making all stops. I don't see how that's productive for TRE, either, because now Amtrak is in the way as much as possible rather than out of the way as fast as possible.

[frequentflyer]

It normally works very well, much better than the old route, when the Eagles had to wait on freights to backup pass Tower 55. Then contend with freights along that very busy route.

TRE normally gets the TEs through to Dallas and vise versa pretty quickly, even when late and outside the their scheduled slots, TRE does a good job. I guess the 15 minutes delay leaving FTW was just a bad slot and you got stuck behind a commuter.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Hopefully one of these days, at least more sidings along TRE will be added and that would help the Texas Eagles. Unfortunately, since Trinity Railway Express owns the tracks, they get the priority. That's like saying that Metro North on the New Haven Line gets priority for their trains first over Amtrak trains. Actually, Metro North doesn't own the whole New Haven Line. They own it from CP112 to the NY/CT State Line and then the State of Connecticut owns the New Haven Line up until Milepost 72.9 just east of New Haven's State St Station. The bottom line is Metro North gets the priority on the entire New Haven Line and they run so many trains. They are usually pretty generous toward letting Amtrak trains pass.

From all of my trips that I have ridden on Amtrak involving riding the New Haven Line, we have done okay with on time keeping. Back to Trinity Railway Express-I have only ridden them once and was amazed about how fast their route is and that would have to help with other trains like Amtrak.

[Backshophoss]

TRE is mostly single track from Purina JCT to Dallas JCT,and only 2 long passing sidings at Tarrant(10039 ft)and Mockingbird(9662 ft)
Not sure if the second track construction was completed /suspended. the other known sidings are too short for running meets and
SLOW speed to boot.
Herzog is the contract operator,may be installing I-ETMS PTC as well.
Both Ft Worth and Dallas Union are under UP Dispatch out of Omaha,TRE controls the rest

[electricron]

Amtrak pays track fees like any other railroad anywhere else in the USA. But those track fees Amtrak pays does not balance the additional insurance fees the TRE pays for the additional coverage Amtrak demands. The bottom line is that the TRE looses money hosting Amtrak.

So you might ask why does the TRE allow Amtrak on their corridor, they are not under any legal requirement to do so? TexRail owned by Trinity Metro (ex-FWTA) desires to use UP owned corridors for its expansion, and UP negotiated as part of gaining these access rights their desire for Amtrak to move away from their line to the TRE line between Dallas and Fort Worth. This is why Trinity Metro is paying for all the increased insurance coverage costs for the TRE and why DART is not. TexRail would not exist as they desired without Amtrak running on the TRE line.

[Tadman]

Makes sense. I wanted to ride that train from the airport to downtown Fort Worth but just missed one, and I was not about to wait 30 minutes at the airport for a 45 minute ride when the cab ride downtown is 40 minutes in pre-rush hour. I haven't been on one of those new Stadler sets and wanted a ride. I'm curious if the local agency will use them to replace the F59/BBD sets as they are about 25 years old and the Texans run them hard for such a little operation.

The aftermath of the above dispatching situation was this: we arrived about a half hour late into Saint Louis. So after the train arrived into Fort Worth on time, it was consistently 30 minutes down. Some other observations: the westbound 21 was held out of the station for 45 minutes somewhere between Dallas and FTW. It finally arrived so at one time there were quite a few passenger trains in the Fort Worth station. A late 21, on-time 22, a few TRE, the northbound Flyer at 2:25, and the airport train. Plus of course that little red wooden interurban stuffed and mounted.

I never thought I'd say it, but FTW is a passenger train hot spot every weekday at 2.

[electricron]

The aftermath of the above dispatching situation was this: we arrived about a half hour late into Saint Louis. So after the train arrived into Fort Worth on time, it was consistently 30 minutes down. Some other observations: the westbound 21 was held out of the station for 45 minutes somewhere between Dallas and FTW. It finally arrived so at one time there were quite a few passenger trains in the Fort Worth station. A late 21, on-time 22, a few TRE, the northbound Flyer at 2:25, and the airport train. Plus of course that little red wooden interurban stuffed and mounted.
I never thought I'd say it, but FTW is a passenger train hot spot every weekday at 2.

The TRE line is not entirely double track, and TRE trains run every hour in both direction or so between morning and evening rush hours. Between rush hours is also when they schedule a few freight trains as well. So an Amtrak train running a half hour late is going to put a monkey wrench into all the scheduling.

Both Texas Eagles are usually schedule to be at the Fort Worth station at the same time, so it can be very busy. If one is running late, it usually makes the other run late as well waiting on the second train to arrive so it can leave.

[edbear]

Railroads, going back years before there was an Amtrak or public ownership of commuter railroads, always gave priority to commuter and suburban trains. The passengers on them are time sensitive. They are going to and from work, appointments, school. They ride daily or frequently. They have a lot more at stake than a trainload of Amtrak passengers who may be delayed for a few minutes.

[slchub]

I feel you. I work for Amtrak and we are held out of terminal awaiting commuters all the time. The only time we get a reprieve are the days when the commuter rail is not running (weekends, holidays, etc.). Believe it or not, the Auto Train is held from leaving or entering the Sanford terminal because of commuter trains.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. SLCHUB, you know better than I that the arrival of #53 will tie up the road in both directions when accessing the SFA station. Now that this stretch of the ACL is publicly owned, that regional transit agency expects their three car trains to "be first". Considering the hour or more "pad" in the AT schedule, Amtrak, and its employees who operate that train, should be prepared to accept such.

Mr. Dunville, it's the same on the Rock Island, where the commuter agency, controls the dispatch. Again it figures the Twin Star Rocket will "fizzle" over the route at the behest of the Agency's trains. Amtrak was sort of the "orphan" when they first started running during '74 with a stub #421-2. As soon as the public agency acquired the RI, the Late Randy Resor was telling me Amtrak wanted to use the route, but the agency said "get lost". Apparently, it's just single track with sidings spaced based upon the TRE schedules. So Amtrak is in a position of "we get you over the road when we get you over the road".

Finally, as I noted at the Transit Forum, I was in Dallas now two weeks ago. I hadn't been there in thirty years, and was totally astounded how the region has embraced mass transportation since that time. I had expected that any Texan's idea of "mass transportation" was simply the three tons of mass representing a Silverado (aren't they made at a GM Texas plant?) transporting often just a driver at whatever velocity the driver wished. Also when landing, when I was there last, the visible suburban sprawl was cotton fields.

[njtmnrrbuff]

The fact that Amtrak must work with TRE on their right of way is like Amtrak must being able to let Metro North call the shots on their tracks-Hudson Line as well as the New Haven. Even though the Hudson Line might not be as busy as the New Haven Line, MNR still runs many trains along the Hudson. If MNR must have Amtrak follow one of their Croton-Harmon local trains from CP 13 to CP 25, then Amtrak will have to do that.

[electricron]

Finally, as I noted at the Transit Forum, I was in Dallas now two weeks ago. I hadn't been there in thirty years, and was totally astounded how the region has embraced mass transportation since that time. I had expected that any Texan's idea of "mass transportation" was simply the three tons of mass representing a Silverado (aren't they made at a GM Texas plant?) transporting often just a driver at whatever velocity the driver wished. Also when landing, when I was there last, the visible suburban sprawl was cotton fields.

They build Escalades, Tahoes, and Denali(s) in Arlington, nor Silverados and Sierras.
Only 2%-3% of Texans ride public transit, but I suppose that is better than 1%.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Point noted, Ron.

But the fact remains the Metroplex is GM truck/SUV country.

I don't think Ford's or RAM's are made around there. Toyota makes theirs somewhere near San Antonio.

So much for vehicles that I would never have a reason to own in this life.