There and back on Amtrak #65 and #66

[charlesriverbranch]

I took train #65 to Virginia from Boston Friday night for a family event, returning last night on #66. This seemed to make the most sense since I don't fly. Amtrak did get me there and back more or less on time, so I suppose I should be happy with that. However, I assumed I would be allowed to get some sleep, but the crew of #65 between New York and Washington seemed to go out of its way to make sure that didn't happen.

On previous occasions when I've been on an Amtrak train late at night, crews turned out the lights and tried to disturb passengers as little as possible. Under the regime of Delta "Customer Service is Job Zero" Dick, it would appear that has changed; the lights stayed on all night on both trains, and the crew in question introduced themselves to us by bursting into our car at three o'clock in the morning yelling "TICKETS OUT! ALL TICKETS OUT!". Why they should need to re-scan our tickets when their predecessors had already done so is anyone's guess, but this crew then went out of their way to make sure none of us got any sleep, periodically storming through the car with their radios at full volume and yelling "GET UP! GET UP!" at any passenger they saw falling asleep all the way to Washington, and making liberal use of the PA system to scream at us. I felt as though I was part of some sleep-deprivation experiment. This crew was also on #66, again between Washington and New York, but they were not as obnoxious and were gone by 1:30, when the train pulled into Penn Station. Their successors, who still had to rescan everybody's tickets, were much more respectful and kept their voices down. However the lights on #66 also stayed on all night.

Can anyone tell me what purpose is served by re-scanning passengers' tickets?

[STrRedWolf]

Let me get out of the way the probably first thing any Amtrak PR grunt will say: Security.

Did you notice if any staff had put a destination slip on the luggage rack? Or if there were any there to begin with?

No?

Then they were checking the ticket you had and scanning it with the ticket they had on their TVP's (Ticket Verification Pad), then comparing names. And each crew were doing it, because the previous crew ether didn't put in a destination slip once checking the earlier ones, or they removed them between changes (ether way, the previous crews were being dicks).

Usually it's the conductors checking the ticket, then putting up a destination slip, and advising you to carry the slip if you change seats. Other crews did not check if there was a slip and you were in the seat.

So ether the crews you had were being dicks, or someone issued an edict not to do it and they're being the dick. Time for a good complaint.

[charlesriverbranch]

The destination slips were all removed by the previous crew before arrival at NYP. That seems to be standard practice whenever an NEC train enters NYP from either direction; the destination slips are removed by the departing crew and the new one rescans everyone's tickets.

My question is: why is this necessary, particularly at 3 AM when it's reasonable to expect that most of the passengers will be asleep?

The rest of the crew's behavior, particularly the deliberate waking of any passenger who falls asleep, seems inexcusable. And why leave the lights on all night?

[TomNelligan]

The rest of the crew's behavior, particularly the deliberate waking of any passenger who falls asleep, seems inexcusable. And why leave the lights on all night?

Up until last year I had occasion to ride #66 between Washington and Boston a couple times a year and neither of these annoyances was standard practice at the time. Waking sleeping passengers for any reason other than to advise them that their station is approaching or to do the traditional Penn Station ticket check is unconscionable and should be reported in a complaint to Amtrak. As for leaving the lights on all night as opposed to dimming them as I remember them doing, maybe someone decided that it's necessary for "security".

[R36 Combine Coach]

Waking sleeping passengers for any reason other than to advise them that their station is approaching or to do the traditional Penn Station ticket check is unconscionable and should be reported in a complaint to Amtrak.

I suspect a possible fraud deterrent? What if a passenger headed to BOS (on 66) or PHL/WAS (on 67/65) simply buys a ticket for NYP and falls asleep, getting to their final destination on the NYP fare?

[bratkinson]

Up until last year I had occasion to ride #66 between Washington and Boston a couple times a year and neither of these annoyances was standard practice at the time. Waking sleeping passengers for any reason other than to advise them that their station is approaching or to do the traditional Penn Station ticket check is unconscionable and should be reported in a complaint to Amtrak. As for leaving the lights on all night as opposed to dimming them as I remember them doing, maybe someone decided that it's necessary for "security".

Like Mr Nelligan, I used to ride #66 or 67 2-3 times per year for the last 10 years. But after 2 trips with those clowns in 2018, I put both trains on my 'never again' list. Whether it was the old goat conductor that repeated every announcement 5-6 times 'next/this station is...' etc for each station and then the lady AC immediately repeating them, I concluded there was some kind of 'turf war' going on and that they actually -intended- to keep everyone awake all night long. At least I got some sleep north of NYP as those conductors were more humane. Interestingly, on ALL long distance routes, the conductor announces that 11PM to 7AM is 'quiet time' and no announcements will be made on the PA. WHY doesn't this extend to #65/66/67? WHY has Amtrak management let those two continue to work that train instead of out on the street? Who knows.

As for why do they rescan tickets leaving NYP, they do that on ALL trains, even Acela First Class! Why? Perhaps it's to ensure that there's no stow-aways aboard. And, of course, all conductors heading to NYP lift all the seat checks about 10 minutes prior to arrival, forcing the new conductor(s) to scan everyones' tickets.

But then, just this past Monday aboard #283 NYP to Utica, it turned out that the idiot conductor from NYP did NOT scan anybodys' tickets in the sold out 18-seat business class section of the cafe car! So, for those of us going beyond Albany, the new conductor quickly discovered that all us 'through' passengers had our reservations CANCELLED for No Show out of NYP!!! He spent perhaps 20 minutes or so on the phone to Amtrak HQ getting our tickets 'reinstated' so he could scan them and for me, at least, I could make the trip back home on Tuesday! The NYP conductor should be out the door in a heartbeat!!

[R36 Combine Coach]

As for why do they rescan tickets leaving NYP, they do that on ALL trains, even Acela First Class! Why? Perhaps it's to ensure that there's no stow-aways aboard. And, of course, all conductors heading to NYP lift all the seat checks about 10 minutes prior to arrival, forcing the new conductor(s) to scan everyones' tickets.

LIRR does fare inspections on ALL trains that enter and leave Jamaica.

I suspect (but not sure) SEPTA does the same in the Center City zone, even on "through" trains running from the PRR side to the RDG or vice versa.

[markhb]

Waking sleeping passengers for any reason other than to advise them that their station is approaching or to do the traditional Penn Station ticket check is unconscionable and should be reported in a complaint to Amtrak.

I suspect a possible fraud deterrent? What if a passenger headed to BOS (on 66) or PHL/WAS (on 67/65) simply buys a ticket for NYP and falls asleep, getting to their final destination on the NYP fare?

But in that case the conductor would know that their (purchased) intended stop was NYP and the destination slip would indicate that. (Although, since I largely ride the Downeaster, damned if I can tell how the conductor knows what the passenger's intended stop is from the slips, which are occasionally torn partway through but not marked with a station stop.)

[MACTRAXX]

CRB and Everyone:

Interesting trip report about overnight Amtrak trains from Boston to Virginia...

The proper term for those so-called "destination slips" is simply a Seat Check - unless Amtrak has retitled
their name and use in recent years. Seat checks are issued on collection of boarding riders tickets to what
normally is to a final destination. I remember Amtrak using two basic types of seat checks - those in which
the three-letter code destination and date are written on and another that has multiple three letter codes
used primarily in the Northeast in which the destination is punched. All of these have multiple colors.

From my past travels I have noted at crew change points that the new boarding crew will go through the
train and look at the seat checks to see where passengers are traveling to - and in some cases riders are
again asked to show the receipt stub from a collected ticket. Seat checks are supposed to help crews know
what seats are occupied and the destination that rider is traveling to. They are also used to keep passengers
from traveling beyond the destination their ticket entitles them to travel but foremost so they do not miss
their station. Seat checks are supposed to be carried with when a rider leaves their seat on a train.

I have traveled on Trains #66 and #67 before (The "Night Owl" was once the name of these trains)
and remember the boarding crew would collect tickets and issue seat checks in a way to be respectful
to sleeping riders. I remember that some tickets for trains going through NYP would be issued in two
parts that are collected on either side of NYP and that there was enough time to collect transportation
during the long stop before the train leaves Penn Station.

R36: Long Island Rail Road tickets are checked not only on both sides of Jamaica - they are punched and
("Serviced") towards rider's final destination at which time they are collected. The reason for tickets being
checked and/or collected on either side of Jamaica is the sheer number of riders that transfer there.
"Change at Jamaica" is one of the best-known LIRR phrases.

SEPTA Regional Rail collects and checks tickets and passes on all trains leaving Center City Philadelphia in
both directions. A train operating through CCP will likely have a large amount of riders boarding as well as
possibly a new Train Crew. Suburban Station is SEPTA's largest crew change point.

MACTRAXX

[bratkinson]

But in that case the conductor would know that their (purchased) intended stop was NYP and the destination slip would indicate that. (Although, since I largely ride the Downeaster, damned if I can tell how the conductor knows what the passenger's intended stop is from the slips, which are occasionally torn partway through but not marked with a station stop.)

On NEC trains, and the Springfield shuttle, the various conductors have their own 'pattern' of folding, tearing, and/or placing the seat checks to save the time needed to pull out a pen or marker and write the 3 letter destination code. On LD trains, the practice is to write the 3 letter codes. It used to be that all the seat checks used on the NEC had the full list of all station codes printed on one side and the destination would be punched out. But that practice stopped as a means to keep the aisles clean of punch chits. Even the Acela had an LCD indicator that could be 'set' by the conductor to display the destination. They were unreliable, time consuming, and hard to read. Almost as hard to read as aisle/seat numbers on Acela first class is today.

I never gave much thought to the 'patterns' used for tearing and placement of seat checks. 'Undamaged, straight up' seems to be used to for PHL and 'undamaged on its side' indicating either NYP or WAS, depending on direction (or maybe it's straight up is 'all the way' and on its side is PHL). I'm guessing an undamaged, folded stub represents BAL or NWK. One corner torn or torn + folded perhaps is BWI or TRE. Metropark, Wilmington and Aberdeen is anyones guess as to how they mutilate the stub.

[danib62]

I had a similar issue on train 67 going from BOS to WAS last January. The crew from BOS to NYP was great, turned down the lights, made an announcement that after 10p no further announcements would be over the PA made so people could rest. Once we got to NYP I don't remember the crew rescanning tickets but I definitely remember them making loud repeated announcements of every stop over the PA and having their radios blaring. I wrote in to complain and didn't get a peep back in response.

[Tadman]

I took train #65 to Virginia from Boston Friday night for a family event, returning last night on #66. This seemed to make the most sense since I don't fly. Amtrak did get me there and back more or less on time, so I suppose I should be happy with that. However, I assumed I would be allowed to get some sleep, but the crew of #65 between New York and Washington seemed to go out of its way to make sure that didn't happen.

On previous occasions when I've been on an Amtrak train late at night, crews turned out the lights and tried to disturb passengers as little as possible. Under the regime of Delta "Customer Service is Job Zero" Dick, it would appear that has changed; the lights stayed on all night on both trains, and the crew in question introduced themselves to us by bursting into our car at three o'clock in the morning yelling "TICKETS OUT! ALL TICKETS OUT!". Why they should need to re-scan our tickets when their predecessors had already done so is anyone's guess, but this crew then went out of their way to make sure none of us got any sleep, periodically storming through the car with their radios at full volume and yelling "GET UP! GET UP!" at any passenger they saw falling asleep all the way to Washington, and making liberal use of the PA system to scream at us. I felt as though I was part of some sleep-deprivation experiment. This crew was also on #66, again between Washington and New York, but they were not as obnoxious and were gone by 1:30, when the train pulled into Penn Station. Their successors, who still had to rescan everybody's tickets, were much more respectful and kept their voices down. However the lights on #66 also stayed on all night.

Can anyone tell me what purpose is served by re-scanning passengers' tickets?

I don't put this on Dick Anderson, I put this on middle management that evidently needs a map to find where the trains are, because they sure don't ride them. This is another problem that takes no money to solve, just a PDF and some job briefings. There are plenty of other crew changes, day and night, where it is not necessary to rescan tickets. There's no reason to do it here. This is just another example of total inconsistency that includes customer service and safety concerns.

Say what you will about British privatization, they sure as heck don't do this on the Caledonian Sleeper.

[Greg Moore]

Waking sleeping passengers for any reason other than to advise them that their station is approaching or to do the traditional Penn Station ticket check is unconscionable and should be reported in a complaint to Amtrak.

I suspect a possible fraud deterrent? What if a passenger headed to BOS (on 66) or PHL/WAS (on 67/65) simply buys a ticket for NYP and falls asleep, getting to their final destination on the NYP fare?

I sure hope that's NOT the thinking because it would make me wonder how many paying passengers they've scared off.

I'm sure sometimes fraud happens, but I suspect it's in the weeds.
I've thought about taking one of these from WAS-NYP in the past, this makes it less likely that I will.

[Tadman]

It seems pretty unlikely that there is a fraud problem on the Owl. It's a night train, and there are plenty of cheap daytime alternatives like the Chinatown bus and the MARC/SEPTA/NJT/MN/SLE chain. Of course there are breaks in the chain but by now we're assuming a fraudster is (a) in a hurry; (b) nocturnal; (c) averse to buses and commuter trains; (d) riding the entire line.

I think not.

[David Benton]

Amtrak must be the only operation in the world that still uses seat stubs.
They need to go to reserved seating , or at least computerised scanning of passenger / seat relationship. Scan your ticket , scan a barcode on the seat , they now know where you are sitting, the computer device tells them the passenger in seat 15 a is getting off at the next stop . Or 15b is supposed to be empty , why is there someone sitting in it ?, check their ticket. Otherwise , no need to check any ticket again for the duration of the trip. New conductor getting on has a screen shot of every seat , with every passengers destination on it. If the passenger moves , its their problem , though this way it will show up pretty quick on the screen.