Tejon Pass Rail link

[D.S. Lewith]

Since 1971, there has been no direct passenger rail link between Los Angeles and the Central Valley, barring the occasion when the Coast Starlight goes through the Tehachapi Pass whenever Union Pacific closes the Coast Line for maintenance. The only existing rail link is through the Tehachapi Pass, and Union Pacific doesn't want any more passenger trains on the Tehachapi as the line is way beyond capacity. This leaves a disconnect between the Pacific Surfliner serving SoCal and the Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin serving NorCal

This leaves the Tejon pass as the only other option. However, no existing rail crossings have been built through the Tejon (although Santa Fe did a survey on what the Tejon rail crossing would have looked like but it never advanced beyond planning). California High Speed Rail did do a study on a Tejon route but decided to back out in favor of a route through the Tehachapi pass to serve Palmdale. However, with the recent scaleback, CHSR may revisit a Tejon crossing once the IOS is finished if they want a more direct route between the Central Valley and LA.

If Amtrak California wants to connect the Surfliner with the NorCal services (San Joaquin, Capitol Corridor) then building a new rail line crossing the Tejon Pass is crucial as Interstate 5 between LA and the Central Valley is heavily traveled and ends up getting clogged and even closed in the winter due to snowy conditions, forcing drivers to take a multi-hour detour through CA-14 and CA-58, and they aren't equipped enough to handle such traffic loads.
As shown by Clem, a Tejon passenger rail line is doable. To make a Tejon passenger rail line truly viable, Metrolink would have to work in tandem with Amtrak California to rebuild the Los Angeles Union Station-Sylmar tracks. This includes grade separation and rebuilding the line to eliminate all grade crossings and accommodate 4 tracks and 125+ mph speeds.

Being that it's a mountain railroad with grades exceeding 3.5%, the Tejon rail line would be electric, and only electric multiple units (EMU) can be used on the line. This would force Amtrak California to procure a new fleet of electric multiple units specifically for this service. Ideally, Amtrak California can procure a fleet of Stadler EMUs that Caltrain would be using as they have low and high platforms.

[Tadman]

Welcome to the board!

The gap has always been of interest to me, but I wouldn't look for it to be built any time soon. California has a bit of a black eye after Gov. Newsome killed HSR.

[mtuandrew]

Ditto the welcome, Mr. Lewith.

If Amtrak and California are serious about a Tejon Pass crossing with 3.35% grades, it doesn’t have to be electric-only. Amtrak currently operates the Southwest Chief over Raton Pass which has maximum grades around 3.5% as well; it usually has two or three P42 locomotives on the point of a ten-car train for a minimum of 7,000 hp at the rail. Not ideal, but not impossible on a daily basis either.

Your linked material looks fascinating and I can’t wait to read it at home.

[D.S. Lewith]

If Amtrak and California are serious about a Tejon Pass crossing with 3.35% grades, it doesn’t have to be electric-only. Amtrak currently operates the Southwest Chief over Raton Pass which has maximum grades around 3.5% as well; it usually has two or three P42 locomotives on the point of a ten-car train for a minimum of 7,000 hp at the rail. Not ideal, but not impossible on a daily basis either.

At corridor speeds (125 mph) and frequencies (7 round trip trains a day), having 3 heavyweight diesels hauling 10 heavyweight cars isn't going to be practical. It will wear out the tracks quicky. Also EMUs have better acceleration so they can deal with grades better than locomotives. To solve the issue of EMUs being unable to operate on the non-electric track north of Bakersfield, they can just have a diesel locomotive haul it, like what the TGV Vendée does

[David Benton]

Just bite the bullet and build a 3 mile tunnel .
Andrew, Raton pass is like 30 mph or less, hardly high speed. The TGV slows down to 180 mph on a 1 in 27 grade , only because the trains are in danger of becoming airborne if they go over the crest faster than that !
It has to be electric.

[Backshophoss]

A good chunk of I-5(aka Grapevine)would have been part of the ROW of the Tejon Sub,but ATSF opted for Joint ops with SP instead.
The last Major RR build in CA was SP's Palmdale Cutoff thru Cajon Pass.
Now that CAHSR has been shunken scope wise to less than 1/2 the original plan as proposed by the Governator years back,
a tunnel thru the Tejon mountain Range is a longshot in the far future.,
AS it is I-5 over Tejon Pass does get snowed in,Chain law imposed, and shut down during the winter months.

[Tadman]

Rather than tow a electric train with a diesel, let's watch the bi-mode Hitachi 800 in the UK and see how that works out. It would also make a nice Empire Service replacement if it works out. Hitachi was willing to open a UK plant to please the politicians, perhaps they'd do that here, too.

[Ridgefielder]

Just bite the bullet and build a 3 mile tunnel .
Andrew, Raton pass is like 30 mph or less, hardly high speed. The TGV slows down to 180 mph on a 1 in 27 grade , only because the trains are in danger of becoming airborne if they go over the crest faster than that !
It has to be electric.

Ordinarily I'd agree on the tunnel. However I believe the Tejon either crosses the San Andreas Fault or is itself the fault. And the two sides of the fault are moving at a rate of something like 0.75"/year. Not the greatest place in the world for a long tunnel, in other words.

Given the narrow confines of the Tejon, it might honestly make more sense to just built a second line over Tehachapi, parallel to the UP. If you're running passenger trains under wire you could have heavier grades, might not need as much looping.

[D.S. Lewith]

Just bite the bullet and build a 3 mile tunnel .
Andrew, Raton pass is like 30 mph or less, hardly high speed. The TGV slows down to 180 mph on a 1 in 27 grade , only because the trains are in danger of becoming airborne if they go over the crest faster than that !
It has to be electric.

Ordinarily I'd agree on the tunnel. However I believe the Tejon either crosses the San Andreas Fault or is itself the fault. And the two sides of the fault are moving at a rate of something like 0.75"/year. Not the greatest place in the world for a long tunnel, in other words.

Given the narrow confines of the Tejon, it might honestly make more sense to just built a second line over Tehachapi, parallel to the UP. If you're running passenger trains under wire you could have heavier grades, might not need as much looping.

Clem's Tejon study shows you can cross the San Andreas Fault at grade. Also, there's still some room for at least 2 tracks

Rather than tow a electric train with a diesel, let's watch the bi-mode Hitachi 800 in the UK and see how that works out. It would also make a nice Empire Service replacement if it works out. Hitachi was willing to open a UK plant to please the politicians, perhaps they'd do that here, too.

Also Hitachi just opened up a new factory in Miami.

[mtuandrew]

Which side of Tejón has the worst grades — the northern approaches or the southern? The reason I ask is because California owns a railroad between Lancaster and Los Angeles, owns an interstate highway right-of-way between Grapevine and Gorman (where Tejón tops out a little over 3600’) and has a largely open stretch paralleling CA Highway 138 between Gorman and Lancaster. There’s about 1000’ of elevation decline between Gorman and Lancaster Metrolink Station, a distance of roundly 47 miles - if my math is correct, that’s a grade of 0.4% which would make a very easy cruise through the length of the Antelope Valley before starting the climb back into Soledad Canyon.

By building Bakersfield-Los Angeles via Grapevine and the Antelope Valley, you’ve saved yourself all of the tunnels and, if I’m not mistaken, the harshest winter weather which would land on the southwest side of the mountains. It is definitely longer, a little longer than via Tehachapi even, but I think the benefits of publicly-owned land and rails make it worth considering.

Here’s a graphical representation of what I mean: https://goo.gl/maps/XpESXiAAfDEC1moRA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Backshophoss]

The worst grade is heading south on I-5 toward Tejon Pass summit(Where the Tejon Ranch HQ is located)
2nd worst is the"Magic Mountain" grade heading north on I-5.

[David Benton]

Which side of Tejón has the worst grades — the northern approaches or the southern? The reason I ask is because California owns a railroad between Lancaster and Los Angeles, owns an interstate highway right-of-way between Grapevine and Gorman (where Tejón tops out a little over 3600’) and has a largely open stretch paralleling CA Highway 138 between Gorman and Lancaster. There’s about 1000’ of elevation decline between Gorman and Lancaster Metrolink Station, a distance of roundly 47 miles - if my math is correct, that’s a grade of 0.4% which would make a very easy cruise through the length of the Antelope Valley before starting the climb back into Soledad Canyon.

By building Bakersfield-Los Angeles via Grapevine and the Antelope Valley, you’ve saved yourself all of the tunnels and, if I’m not mistaken, the harshest winter weather which would land on the southwest side of the mountains. It is definitely longer, a little longer than via Tehachapi even, but I think the benefits of publicly-owned land and rails make it worth considering.

Here’s a graphical representation of what I mean: https://goo.gl/maps/XpESXiAAfDEC1moRA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That looks like a faultline to me , unless it is a man straightened river etc. Not that makes it impossible .

[mtuandrew]

That looks like a faultline to me , unless it is a man straightened river etc. Not that makes it impossible .

The straight line? That’s just a highway, I didn’t have the ability to draw a proper alignment map.

[David Benton]

No the river , and the mountains, parallel to the N2 and N4 roads. Have a look in satellite view and you will see it .

[mtuandrew]

Ah, I understand what you mean now, and it absolutely is a fault line. Two major ones, actually, and a bunch of little ones, but I honestly don’t know where you’ll find a route between San Francisco and Los Angeles without crossing the San Andreas at least, if not a few other big ones too.

Check out this fault line map: http://maps.conservation.ca.gov/cgs/fam/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;