Tejon Pass Rail link

[Backshophoss]

Ca government is too risk advirse to build a tunnel thru that many fault lines the tunnel would be too deep for safe emergency exit in case
of an earthquake.

[D.S. Lewith]

Ah, I understand what you mean now, and it absolutely is a fault line. Two major ones, actually, and a bunch of little ones, but I honestly don’t know where you’ll find a route between San Francisco and Los Angeles without crossing the San Andreas at least, if not a few other big ones too.

All LA-SF routes are going to cross the San Andreas fault

Rather than tow a electric train with a diesel, let's watch the bi-mode Hitachi 800 in the UK and see how that works out. It would also make a nice Empire Service replacement if it works out. Hitachi was willing to open a UK plant to please the politicians, perhaps they'd do that here, too.

Hitachi opened a factory in Miami 3 years earlier http://www.hitachi.us/press/03162016-rail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[John_Perkowski]

I grew up in LA

Let me make this simple. Anything going EAST from LA crosses the San Andreas. That includes Tehachipi, Tejon, and Cajon.

Anything going up the Coast Line will Cross the San Andreas.

Only trains heading for San Diego won’t cross it.

Rail construction engineers in California are used to planning for lines crossing the fault lines. When a line has a significant earthquake, it’s an environmental cost of doing business, just like BNSF and UP operating in the Missouri River floodplain around here in Kansas City.

[mtuandrew]

Mr. Norman: I’ve advocated DMUs elsewhere, and have to ask how the newest ones compare to a coach bus. If better than that, they’re still an improvement. That said, it’s been many years but at the time, I was most impressed by the acceleration, top speed, and relative comfort of the old British Rail Class 43 trainset - a modern equivalent with two 4,000 hp power cars instead of 2,500 hp apiece (see: Siemens Brightline equipment) seems like it would handle such 3.5% grades well enough at 79 though probably not 125. All I’m saying is, if electrification adds billions to CAHSR, electrification doesn’t need to happen immediately to operate at 125 mph. (There’s B100 biofuel for renewability concerns.)

Col. Perkowski and Mr. Leweth: I thought there was no way around the San Andreas, but thanks for the confirmation.

[Tadman]

The British buffs love to complain about DMU. They also love to complain about the 800 class Azumas. That has more to do with the crummy seats in comparison to the mkIII coaches used with 43 class HST, and the fact that the 800 is replacing the 43 in a few years. The 43 was a thoroughly British train and a rather decent one, being replaced by a Japanese one-size-fits-all 800 class. It’s a national pride issue and I can’t say I blame them.

But the brits also love Pacers, which are literally a bus body on a two-axle freight chassis. Go figure. Seems like the ultimate POS to me.

[ExCon90]

Very true--I can't believe they're popular. It's like riding a school bus over a road that needs repaving. At least on a school bus you're not allowed to stand--there have to be enough seats; there's no such restriction on Pacers. I've read in British magazines that the Treasury made a lot of decisions about interior elements and were concerned primarily about cramming passengers in. The seats even in the long-haul DMU sets, for anyone who's wondering, seem to me to be identical to those on the RiverLINE--OK for Camden to Trenton, not so good for Liverpool to Sheffield. In theory, with proper soundproofing and appropriate seating, DMUs could be made to work on CAHSR. Welcome back?

[dowlingm]

Could have had versions of these 100mph Rotem trainsets, if Rotem hadn't made a mess on other US work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRSxcKiIpwU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Soon to be available in hybrid
https://www.railjournal.com/fleet/irish ... owerpacks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[David Benton]

The Pacers are loathed in Britain, generally palmed off onto any secondary authority desperate for rolling stock. Even they have little in common with the original bus body on a rail chassis idea, which died pretty quickly. They did the job of ensuring secondary services survived , when there was no money for traditional DMU replacement.

The Hitachis and other Latest DMU/EMU/hybrids are what we should be looking at comparing to a straight HSR design as a intermin.

[mtuandrew]

All of this needs to keep in mind that if CAHSR were to choose diesel, it would be a clean-burning version with little to no odor, possibly using renewable fuel. The noise, vibration, and harshness is another matter. This leads me to believe that a top-and-tail trainset like Brightline would be a better fit and easier to convert to electric.

That actually brings me back to the original discussion for a moment. Virgin Trains America has sold enough bonds to cover its Orlando extension, rather amazingly. I wonder whether they would be able or willing to do the same in California. At worst, they foist a partially-complete Tejón Line onto the Bear Flag Republic (it’s a hunch, but Tejón seems more likely than Tehachapi for Sir Branson.) At best, they receive the entire CAHSR franchise due to holding the vital link between Bakersfield and Palmdale.

[D.S. Lewith]

All of this needs to keep in mind that if CAHSR were to choose diesel, it would be a clean-burning version with little to no odor, possibly using renewable fuel. The noise, vibration, and harshness is another matter. This leads me to believe that a top-and-tail trainset like Brightline would be a better fit and easier to convert to electric.

How about battery power

That actually brings me back to the original discussion for a moment. Virgin Trains America has sold enough bonds to cover its Orlando extension, rather amazingly. I wonder whether they would be able or willing to do the same in California. At worst, they foist a partially-complete Tejón Line onto the Bear Flag Republic (it’s a hunch, but Tejón seems more likely than Tehachapi for Sir Branson.) At best, they receive the entire CAHSR franchise due to holding the vital link between Bakersfield and Palmdale.

Why not make Virgin CAHSR public-private (in this case between them and Amtrak California; Amtrak California owns the tracks and Virgin's the one operating the equipment).

[Tadman]

That might be a very good idea. Although Gov. Newsom is trying to throw the private sector under the bus right now. There was a big article in the LA Times a few weeks ago where he blames an army of consultants for CAHSR woes. Supposedly the consultants were brought in because the state had little experience building an entire HSR system, and didn't have the manpower even if they did. I agree with that reasoning. But Governor Newsome claims the consultants ran amok and didn't keep on track. I have opinions in both ways, but bottom line is that consultants usually need a strong leader. In the case of a state-wide HSR, the governor should probably be super hands-on.

https://www.latimes.com/local/californi ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[electricron]

When an organization is ruled by a committee - not one person in authority - consultants running amok is what you usually get with the resulting cost overruns. There must be someone in charge to say no, we are not going to do this budget blowing item.

For example, building tracks below grade in the middle of cities. It has been, is, and will always be cheaper to build the grade separated HSR tracks above grade. Below grade tracks should have been reserved for tunneling through mountains. But with a committee in charge, we have more very expensive cuts and tunnels anywhere.

Another example from history: Teddy Roosevelt choosing John Frank Stevens initially to head America's efforts building the Panama Canal, and then choosing Colonel Willian C. Gorgas to actually build it. Without both of these men sticking to their gut feelings on how to best do it, the Panama Canal probably would not have been so successful. Amongst the things both kept high on their to do list, was always looking at how to do it cheaper.

No significant effort has been made to reduce and trim costs at CHSR. Budgets have been blown. What else is new?

[Tadman]

Agreed. I’d like to see how the private HSR goes in Texas. I bet it’s not the dumpster fire of CAHSR.

[mtuandrew]

I don’t put a whole lot of blame on Newsom, he made a hard choice once Gov Brown’s term was over.

Politically, I have no idea how Virgin Trains America will play in California, but I bet they’ve been beating a path to Sacramento. They have a working relationship with a major equipment supplier, an amazingly large amount of capital from investors foreign and domestic, a good reputation in Florida, and an existing HSR project LA-LV. They also have ties to some Republicans (Rick Scott is or was a major investor in Brightline) that Newsom and the state house may find noxious, but money and a reputation as a good private partner smooths over a lot.

This really has drifted from Tejón, hasn’t it.

[D.S. Lewith]

I don’t put a whole lot of blame on Newsom, he made a hard choice once Gov Brown’s term was over.

Politically, I have no idea how Virgin Trains America will play in California, but I bet they’ve been beating a path to Sacramento. They have a working relationship with a major equipment supplier, an amazingly large amount of capital from investors foreign and domestic, a good reputation in Florida, and an existing HSR project LA-LV. They also have ties to some Republicans (Rick Scott is or was a major investor in Brightline) that Newsom and the state house may find noxious, but money and a reputation as a good private partner smooths over a lot.

Yet Rick Scott was that same guy who mothballed an earlier (public-funded) HSR corridor that Brightline has come to fill the void with. The general Republican concensus towards transportation (and a lot of things, really) is minarchism, where the only things government are the military and police (and the laws that they enforce), which would explain why they're OK with spending huge on the military yet they flip out on anything that isn't military (even if it costs less and they can benefit more that than military). Everything else is private, though they seem to be OK with the government maintaining the freeways.

Wonder how Republicans would feel about Public-Private Partnership, though personally I'd much rather see (at the very least) the STRACNET tracks be nationalized.

This really has drifted from Tejón, hasn’t it.

Pretty much. It went to discussing about diesels on the Tejon (which IMO isn't really practical) and the whole politics surrounding CAHSR.