charlesriverbranch wrote:The last schedule I saw it advertised was 1977: http://timetables.org/full.php?group=19770622&item=0036" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:I wish there was the ability for same day connections in New Orleans between the Crescent and Sunset Limited. If there was, passengers would have another option in traveling between the Northeast and the West Coast. Can you imagine that in the winter? You wouldn't have to deal with the Chicago weather. Amtrak screwed that up on both ends though.In the 1970's, there was a through sleeper that was transferred at NO between the Crescent (still Southern) and Amtrak's Sunset Limited, providing a one-seat (bed?) ride between NYC and LA. Does anyone know how long it lasted?
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It was a nice try, offering some convenience, but a completely unproductive night for the sleeper in New Orleans in each direction.
The NY to LA Sleeper was SR to SP at New Orleans,was offered by Amtrak till the Sunset Ltd was re-equipped with Superliners
as the Crescent was one of the last Steam heated trains to get HEP.
Could a View II Sleeper be used,as long as there's a Trans-Dorm/Sleeper in consist on the Sunset Ltd,yes,but would make for more switching moves at
San Antonio when the Eagle's thru cars are added to the Sunset Ltd.
Be a heck of a pipe dream.
as the Crescent was one of the last Steam heated trains to get HEP.
Could a View II Sleeper be used,as long as there's a Trans-Dorm/Sleeper in consist on the Sunset Ltd,yes,but would make for more switching moves at
San Antonio when the Eagle's thru cars are added to the Sunset Ltd.
Be a heck of a pipe dream.
The Land of Enchantment is not Flyover country!
Tadman wrote:The Elkhart passenger can either wait for a 1x/day Late For Sure Limited or drive fifteen minutes to Niles and have 4 trains Michigan trains/day into Chicago.37 minutes from the Elkhart station to the Niles station. 25 minutes from the South Bend station to the Niles station.
Tadman wrote:Why would either of those passengers want to sit at Indy or Elkhart (both awful stations) for any number of hours when a far more predictable corridor train is available?Indy is a bus terminal with trains. Not very welcoming. Elkhart isn't awful, although it could use better hours. The station is open at train times. The new platform is nice.
Later in the thread:
Tadman wrote:From Elkhart, you can ride two trains into Chicago. One is referred to as "Late For Sure", the other just happens to be late often as well. Or you can drive 20 minutes to Niles, and catch the much less delay-prone Bluewater, or one of 11 South Shore trains that are almost never late.Getting closer ... the closest possible Elkhart address is about 20 minutes from the Niles station (any closer and one would be in Granger or Michigan).
As for the South Shore ... one would need to drive to Michigan City to catch most of the trains. Five trains from South Bend with only two arriving in Chicago before noon on weekdays (9 from Michigan City with before noon arrivals). Less trains on weekends. For the return trip the last train to South Bend leaves Chicago at 7:10pm weekdays. Later trains can get you to Michigan City. And (of course) one has to cross Chicago since Amtrak and NICTD serve different stations.
He said he rode the train from Elkhart, but did not specify what town he's from in northern Indiana. At that point it really opens up myriad towns to be his potential home base that we can assume are probably closer to Elkhart than Waterloo, but I wouldn't rule out the South Bend area as the SB station has parking in a rotten neighborhood. I would never leave a car there.
As for the "pain" of crossing downtown Chicago, the supposed traveler planned on an afternoon in Chicago anyway, it's not like he was going to go sit in Lou Mitchells all day. I've done this very transfer quite a few times and I chose the South Shore for that very reason - I knew I could be off the Chief, over to Randolph, and in South Bend by the time the LSL or Cap departs the city. For three years I lived in KC with my family in South Bend, it was a routine I knew well.
As for the "pain" of crossing downtown Chicago, the supposed traveler planned on an afternoon in Chicago anyway, it's not like he was going to go sit in Lou Mitchells all day. I've done this very transfer quite a few times and I chose the South Shore for that very reason - I knew I could be off the Chief, over to Randolph, and in South Bend by the time the LSL or Cap departs the city. For three years I lived in KC with my family in South Bend, it was a routine I knew well.
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
Years ago some friends from Urbana moved to South Bend, but one of them needed to go back to Urbana regularly for meetings with his PhD advisor. Being the railfan that I am, I figured out all the trains he could take from South Bend to catch trains to Urbana and vice versa. Some involved taking the South Shore most of the way in, then taking Metra out to Homewood, then catching Amtrak. Sometimes Amtrak was best. Sometimes South Shore downtown and walk was feasible. He would not have figured these things out on his own, and neither would a lot of other people
At the time, I grumbled that Amtrak, the NICTD, and METRA should be making these schedules, and/or making one combined web routefinder that would show all these connections. I thought it would increase the number of passengers. As the web has advanced and now with phone apps, I still think so. You're just guessing where this passenger lives, but it would make a lot of sense to have a zip-code function in the trip planner and have the trip planner include other rail services: I am here and I want to go there. What are my options. Google Maps does this for many locations. Amtrak could at least try.
Tadman, if Amtrak gave customers an easy way to find out about those other kinds of trains that you mention, then your suggestions would be somewhat reasonable. The information and the technology exists to have guarantee some connections and not others based on train performance, rather than saying "we will never guarantee a connection from one LD train to another, or from an LD train to the last train of the day whther its LD or corridor." But even with that, I still say there are plenty of routes between stations that only have LD trains and that require a change in Chicago, and that Amtrak should keep selling those connections as long as they make them most of the time (75%? I'm not sure; they can do the math and figure out what makes sense.)
At the time, I grumbled that Amtrak, the NICTD, and METRA should be making these schedules, and/or making one combined web routefinder that would show all these connections. I thought it would increase the number of passengers. As the web has advanced and now with phone apps, I still think so. You're just guessing where this passenger lives, but it would make a lot of sense to have a zip-code function in the trip planner and have the trip planner include other rail services: I am here and I want to go there. What are my options. Google Maps does this for many locations. Amtrak could at least try.
Tadman, if Amtrak gave customers an easy way to find out about those other kinds of trains that you mention, then your suggestions would be somewhat reasonable. The information and the technology exists to have guarantee some connections and not others based on train performance, rather than saying "we will never guarantee a connection from one LD train to another, or from an LD train to the last train of the day whther its LD or corridor." But even with that, I still say there are plenty of routes between stations that only have LD trains and that require a change in Chicago, and that Amtrak should keep selling those connections as long as they make them most of the time (75%? I'm not sure; they can do the math and figure out what makes sense.)
Agreed. If you use DB or NS (Germany and Holland) website, they seamlessly include long distance, high speed, bus, and regional trains, and often S-bahn (commuter). See the example below:
https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5D44D81E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The itinerary was made on purpose between smaller destinations in two countries, and I chose the most complex one just to illustrate a point. As you can see, it arranges an itinerary from commuter train to HST to regional carrier to private access carrier to commuter train. In each case it will also tell me what car I'm in, what track the train arrives on, and what track the connecting train departs on. This makes it much easier to travel by train.
What's really crazy is that the software is for NS, the Dutch railways, the trip originates in Germany, and it finished is Austria, and involves four carriers providing transport and a fifth providing booking. That's a lot of moving parts and it works.
I'd love to see Amtrak work commuter train schedules into their reservation system, perhaps even sell connecting tickets with a $1 convenience fee (of course marked "connection not guaranteed" or something). Once I met a lady on the CofNO riding New Orleans-Hazel Crest to meet her family. She thouhhy that she had to ride all the way downtown and walk across the loop to Metra Electric. What she didn't know is that she was riding back out an hour in the reverse direction on the same rails. I showed her how to transfer at Homewood and saved her a few hours.
Given that all passenger carriers get some federal money, it would be wise for them to require integration to some extent on ticketing applications, at least in the corridors.
https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5D44D81E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The itinerary was made on purpose between smaller destinations in two countries, and I chose the most complex one just to illustrate a point. As you can see, it arranges an itinerary from commuter train to HST to regional carrier to private access carrier to commuter train. In each case it will also tell me what car I'm in, what track the train arrives on, and what track the connecting train departs on. This makes it much easier to travel by train.
What's really crazy is that the software is for NS, the Dutch railways, the trip originates in Germany, and it finished is Austria, and involves four carriers providing transport and a fifth providing booking. That's a lot of moving parts and it works.
I'd love to see Amtrak work commuter train schedules into their reservation system, perhaps even sell connecting tickets with a $1 convenience fee (of course marked "connection not guaranteed" or something). Once I met a lady on the CofNO riding New Orleans-Hazel Crest to meet her family. She thouhhy that she had to ride all the way downtown and walk across the loop to Metra Electric. What she didn't know is that she was riding back out an hour in the reverse direction on the same rails. I showed her how to transfer at Homewood and saved her a few hours.
Given that all passenger carriers get some federal money, it would be wise for them to require integration to some extent on ticketing applications, at least in the corridors.
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
Tadman wrote:He said he rode the train from Elkhart, but did not specify what town he's from in northern Indiana. At that point it really opens up myriad towns to be his potential home base that we can assume are probably closer to Elkhart than Waterloo, but I wouldn't rule out the South Bend area as the SB station has parking in a rotten neighborhood. I would never leave a car there.So with all that lack of detail you're suggesting using the Niles station (37 minutes from the Elkhart station) or the South Shore. You claim that Elkhart is "awful" and South Bend is "rotten". Waterloo is decent with recently paved parking a block away from the platform but the facilities are similar to Elkhart and South Bend (part time station). I suppose Amrak should just shut down with the reputation you're painting.
Tadman wrote:As for the "pain" of crossing downtown Chicago, the supposed traveler planned on an afternoon in Chicago anyway, it's not like he was going to go sit in Lou Mitchells all day. I've done this very transfer quite a few times and I chose the South Shore for that very reason - I knew I could be off the Chief, over to Randolph, and in South Bend by the time the LSL or Cap departs the city. For three years I lived in KC with my family in South Bend, it was a routine I knew well.Amtrak to Amtrak in Chicago would be easier. Store the luggage at CUS then explore until it is time to board. From Randolph it is a trek across town before any exploring can begin - or a trek back to CUS to get the luggage before heading off to Randolph. You obviously made your trip on different schedules than being run today ... and were not intending to explore - so no going back to CUS after exploring.
I'm not sure what schedule you used for "11 trains" in your previous post. Certainly nothing current. And if a late western train into Chicago is too late for an on time Capital Limited or Lake Shore Limited (no derogatory names for the trains) then you're not going to get a South Shore train to South Bend. Last call is 7:10pm on weekdays and 9:15pm on weekends ... and NICTD won't be holding their train for you. Your family would be picking you up in Michigan City.
justalurker66 wrote: You claim that Elkhart is "awful" and South Bend is "rotten". ... I suppose Amrak should just shut down with the reputation you're painting.Yes. I am being very clear. South Bend station is not in a good part of town and I would never park my car there overnight. You do what you want, but I'm not going to suggest anybody should leave their car in that spot. How can I make this more clear????
Elkhart is not that good of a station, it is not in a bad area but the downtown is empty these days and for a while I think the Cap skipped the station. Contrast this with Niles, a nicely rebuilt station with volunteer staffing and a quiet manicured parking area and multiple trains per day.
As for Amtrak shutting down? You draw your own conclusions, it's useless between Northern Indiana and Chicago when riding the ex-NYC water level. South Shore or Detroit line are the way to go.
justalurker66 wrote: Amtrak to Amtrak in Chicago would be easier. Store the luggage at CUS then explore until it is time to board. From Randolph it is a trek across town before any exploring can begin - or a trek back to CUS to get the luggage before heading off to Randolph. You obviously made your trip on different schedules than being run today ... and were not intending to explore - so no going back to CUS after exploring.Michigan City would be great. Just start the end the journey there! It's just so easy.
I'm not sure what experience you base this on, but that's just not true. A brief cab ride on uber or yellow taxi is a piece of cake. Given the allowable luggage on Amtrak, it's just not that hard. The schedules have not changed that much.
justalurker66 wrote: I'm not sure what schedule you used for "11 trains" in your previous post. Certainly nothing current. And if a late western train into Chicago is too late for an on time Capital Limited or Lake Shore Limited (no derogatory names for the trains) then you're not going to get a South Shore train to South Bend. Last call is 7:10pm on weekdays and 9:15pm on weekends ... and NICTD won't be holding their train for you. Your family would be picking you up in Michigan City.
Please keep in mind the average person is not a buff and not looking to make this hard, they're looking to make this easy.
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
Do you have any real numbers to back up the "feeling" that a car would be safer parked in Niles than South Bend or Elkhart? Or being safer at Michigan City's South Shore stations? Leaving your car anywhere for an extended period of time is a risk. I have left mine at the station in Elkhart for a week (traveling on the Capitol Limited). No problems for me.
BTW: Last train to Niles leaves Chicago at 5:50pm. Three hours after the Chief arrives. Less than two after the Empire Builder. Will Amtrak hold that train for a late Chief or Empire Builder?
(For westbound Amtrak suggests the 365 Bluewater @ 11:04am from Niles with a three hour layover in Chicago before the Chief departs, 2:30 before the Empire Builder.)
My definition of "easy" is to pick the nearest Amtrak station to where you are and the nearest Amtrak station to the destination and book a ticket - without worrying about missed connections or being refused a ticket because someone doesn't want to guarantee the connection in Chicago. Amtrak makes you choose the stations ... if they had a zip code to zip code system do you believe that Amtrak's system would be recommending driving to Niles if one typed in an Elkhart or South Bend address? Or would it simply find the closest station to each zip code and make the route?
BTW: Last train to Niles leaves Chicago at 5:50pm. Three hours after the Chief arrives. Less than two after the Empire Builder. Will Amtrak hold that train for a late Chief or Empire Builder?
(For westbound Amtrak suggests the 365 Bluewater @ 11:04am from Niles with a three hour layover in Chicago before the Chief departs, 2:30 before the Empire Builder.)
My definition of "easy" is to pick the nearest Amtrak station to where you are and the nearest Amtrak station to the destination and book a ticket - without worrying about missed connections or being refused a ticket because someone doesn't want to guarantee the connection in Chicago. Amtrak makes you choose the stations ... if they had a zip code to zip code system do you believe that Amtrak's system would be recommending driving to Niles if one typed in an Elkhart or South Bend address? Or would it simply find the closest station to each zip code and make the route?
Justalurker: https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Sout ... ana/crime/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has an interactive, searchable map of reported crimes. Amtrak SOB looks to border a high-larceny area. Draw your own conclusions about Elkhart, Michigan City and Niles 
mtuandrew wrote:Justalurker: https://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Sout ... ana/crime/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has an interactive, searchable map of reported crimes. Amtrak SOB looks to border a high-larceny area. Draw your own conclusions about Elkhart, Michigan City and NilesIt would be foolish and irresponsible to guess how much crime was in other areas based on the reports from another city.
As for the SOB station ... one theft from a vehicle was reported in September of 2018.
Yeah here's a great statistic: NICTD moved the South Shore out of that dump and into the airport because it was a high crime area. Once they moved, ridership went up.
Here's another one: South Bend's murder rate is 4x the national average per 100k people.
Again, you can argue all you want. I have made this transfer many times. I have used all the stations involved many times. Riding from South Bend or Elkhart to Chicago and transferring to a western train is a dumb idea. If you want Amtrak to have patrons other than buffs, it's a bad idea. The average passenger just doesn't care to play Cary Grant on the Century, they don't even know what color the train is or where it was made. They only thing they know is if the train is late and if they're safe.
The facts stand. The trains are late and the passenger's cars are not safe in that parking lot. Why are you arguing this? Do you want to argue with NICTD as well? Maybe we could get Gerry Hanas on here and you could tell him he's got his head in the sand?
Here's another one: South Bend's murder rate is 4x the national average per 100k people.
Again, you can argue all you want. I have made this transfer many times. I have used all the stations involved many times. Riding from South Bend or Elkhart to Chicago and transferring to a western train is a dumb idea. If you want Amtrak to have patrons other than buffs, it's a bad idea. The average passenger just doesn't care to play Cary Grant on the Century, they don't even know what color the train is or where it was made. They only thing they know is if the train is late and if they're safe.
The facts stand. The trains are late and the passenger's cars are not safe in that parking lot. Why are you arguing this? Do you want to argue with NICTD as well? Maybe we could get Gerry Hanas on here and you could tell him he's got his head in the sand?
The new Acela: It's not Aveliable.
We've diverged for a while about Amtrak SOB (listening, Mayor Pete?) but it does bring up a good point: it’s rare at best that Amtrak offers a seamless commuter connection that goes between lines. If one wanted to go (say) TOL-GRR there’s no rway to disembark at SOB, walk to South Shore, ride to MIC, board the Pere Marquette (which doesn’t even stop there now), and skip the long detour to Chicago. Not only does Amtrak figure its passengers will have the last mile covered, it often figures they will complete the last 50-100 miles on their own unless they go from one online city to another on the same line.
If breaking train-to-train connections, Amtrak has a responsibility to at least try to supply alternate connections - maybe a dedicated bus that hits Hammond-Whiting, Homewood, Joliet, Aurora? and Glenview. Call it the Parmalee Express for those in the know
If breaking train-to-train connections, Amtrak has a responsibility to at least try to supply alternate connections - maybe a dedicated bus that hits Hammond-Whiting, Homewood, Joliet, Aurora? and Glenview. Call it the Parmalee Express for those in the know
Tadman wrote:The facts stand. The trains are late and the passenger's cars are not safe in that parking lot. Why are you arguing this? Do you want to argue with NICTD as well? Maybe we could get Gerry Hanas on here and you could tell him he's got his head in the sand?Why were you arguing that Elkhart was bad? The whole mess starts with your love of the Niles station 37 minutes away from Elkhart ...yet just last week there was a robbery just north of the Niles station.
With all the respect that you give the Lake Shore Limited (but still no derogatory name used) ... Niles is not a good option to a train directly to Elkhart. I have gone through your flawed argument step by step ... you don't want same day transfers in Chicago because of late trains. Yet your solutions are trains that leave hours earlier than an on time Amtrak LD train running to stations far from where the potential passenger wants to go. Trains that have no chance of being held for a late connection from a western train.
Of course, your first solution is to allow no LD to LD connections. Or at least stop selling connecting tickets so the burden of having the train be on time and making the connection falls on the passenger, not the railroad. What a way to run a railroad! Pass of the railroad's responsibility to the passenger and if they are late "so sad too bad"?