Amtrak and the USPS

[SemperFidelis]

Hello Amtrak Forum,

I read recently that the USPS briefly used contracted to move mail on some of it's passenger trains until a few years ago.

And maybe again in a proper sentence, good sir?

I swear I am not trying to be a jerk or a clichéd internet forum grammar troll, and with all of my meds in my system right now I might be missing something that is obvious to others suffering fewer chemical influences. I honestly don't know what you mean by this sentence.

[Backshophoss]

There were certain classes of Mail that are palletized and shipped in the Baggage cars,There was the failed Express expansion with the MHC's
and Roadrailers,that raised objections by the Host RR's.
Believe Mr Gunn put a stop to the Express expansion.

[R36 Combine Coach]

At the peak of the Mail & Express (M&E) operations was 1980s-2005, with later 90s a larger business. The Three Rivers from 1996-2005 was basically a mixed freight with a few coaches, sleeper and dinette added on, included many roadrailers and MHCs. Two orders of MHCs (boxcars) were delivered in 1986 and 1988. There were two daily NEC M&E trains, 12 (now 190/150) and 13. Both carried first class between northeastern points (between NY and New England for example) and second class (bulk mail, periodicals) pallets. Most LDs had MHCs (and some cases roadrailer trailers as well). One legacy of the M&E period was a stillborn "Skyline Connection" mixed train between Philadelphia and Chicago (via PIT/CLE) that was due for 2001 launch and planned to tap into the express freight market as a companion to Three Rivers. USPS switched mostly to trucking (and commercial airlines for first class long distance).

Most of the MHCs have been sold off and ExpressTrak reefer service was gone by 2006. Gunn announced major cuts to M&E in 2005 to improve OTP and reduce costs, particularly at major terminals.

[David Benton]

A study a few years ago , by the GAO(?), found the USPS could save a few million by using rail more. I don't think Amtrak was specifically mentioned, possibly they were thinking more along the lines of piggyback trailers on Freight.

[EuroStar]

I am under the impression that UPS uses rail for some of their shipments. Given that USPS is looking more and more like a parcel company than first class mail company, I am would not be surprised if freight rail makes sense for them. Freight is probably too slow for first class mail, but should be ok for most parcels. I do not think Amtrak should get into the mail business though. They have enough on their plate to handle. I do not know if Fedex uses or has ever used rail in the past.

[Railjunkie]

Snail 12 and 13 I mean mail 12 ans 13. The last "mail" trains on the NE Corridor. Died late 90s.

I do remember doing mail work at Buffalo Depew. Mostly third class stuff, but every once in a while a pallet of stamps would show up. That was always fun passengers would start to get nervous when the postal service would show up with shot guns and such. Roadrailers, mail Blackburn had the contract for the trailers Ive heard of razors sneakers and such being in there also. However for he last few years of service. anytime I read the manifest they were always listed as dunnage industrial sand.

[ExCon90]

The freight railroads haul trainloads of other than first-class mail, which is loaded into trailers at mostly outlying facilities with excellent highway access and trucked to the railroad's intermodal terminal. Back in the day the proximity of postal sorting centers and major stations (e.g., New York, Philadelphia) simplified transfer between the post office and passenger trains, but now the PO is in the suburbs (in Philadelphia, the former 30th St. post office is now the regional office of the IRS, and the tunnels and passageways to the platforms at 30th St. Station are unused. The USPS sorting center is now out near the airport).

[R36 Combine Coach]

Back in the day the proximity of postal sorting centers and major stations (e.g., New York, Philadelphia) simplified transfer between the post office and passenger trains, but now the PO is in the suburbs (in Philadelphia, the former 30th St. post office is now the regional office of the IRS, and the tunnels and passageways to the platforms at 30th St. Station are unused. The USPS sorting center is now out near the airport).

The major cities on the NEC, Washington, Philadelphia, New York and Boston all had their main post office stations at or adjacent to the railroad station (I believe Chicago, Pittsburgh and St. Louis as well). There were connections between Penn Station and the Farley building for mail transfer and even Farley had its own mail platforms beneath.

[MBTA3247]

I do not know if Fedex uses or has ever used rail in the past.

They do.

[Backshophoss]

The Fed -Ex Ground services are heavy intermodal users,not at the same level as UPS.

[litz]

UPS has enough use that they rate entire hotshot trains.

Can be interesting when there's a derailment on the line, and you find your package listed in the UPS tracking as "Exception - Train Derailment". Luckily for most users, it's another train causing the delay and it wasn't the hotshot itself that derailed ...

[RRspatch]

The Fed -Ex Ground services are heavy intermodal users,not at the same level as UPS.

Drop off a package at UPS on a Friday and request "next day air" (which means delivery on Monday) your package will "fly" across the country at an altitude of about 10 feet. Every Saturday and Sunday night when I started my 3rd trick shift we were all given a list of HOT Z trains that had "air loads" on them and could NOT be delayed. Not everything in those containers is "ground".

[Tadman]

Funny you mention that. Summers in college I did a lot of work in the shipping/receiving department of a machinery company. We were under instructions to save a bit of money, especially for intra-company shipments. If it had to leave Friday and get there Monday, it went ground or second day because we knew it would get there on the same path as the overnight stuff. Never failed once.

[jackal]

A study a few years ago , by the GAO(?), found the USPS could save a few million by using rail more. I don't think Amtrak was specifically mentioned, possibly they were thinking more along the lines of piggyback trailers on Freight.

It was actually the USPS Office of the Inspector General (OIG), an independent agency separate from the USPS but tasked with monitoring the USPS's operation. I think they generally don't have actual oversight but can make recommendations (sort of like the NTSB does for the FAA and FRA).

The report is at https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/strate ... -mail-rail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The report was published back in 2012 and AFAICT nothing has been done as a result of it.

The freight railroads haul trainloads of other than first-class mail, which is loaded into trailers at mostly outlying facilities with excellent highway access and trucked to the railroad's intermodal terminal.

I would love to see confirmation of this, because I have found zero info anywhere about any large-scale, consistent use of intermodal by the USPS. AFAICT, all long-distance haulage of surface mail is done by HCR (Highway Contract Route). It's been mentioned that some carriers (JB Hunt, etc.) will bid on a HCR and then actually put their trailer on a train (TOFC), but the USPS itself doesn't directly use intermodal in most cases. I'd be fascinated to learn if I'm wrong, though.

[ExCon90]

Of course it's been awhile, and things change, but Conrail used to operate MAIL-9 and some others between Eastern and Midwestern points, scheduled to suit the requirements of USPS. Maybe things have changed since the Conrail split.