Penn Station Emergency Repairs: Trackwork, etc.

[Allouette]

The Crescent should be easy be turn at Washington as long as a track at Ivy City is available. Turning at Washington would save a whole train set as well, reducing pressure on the diner pool. North of DC it's usually about half empty anyway. A more pressing problem is handling passenger (and baggage) transfer, as the Crescent currently shares a platform with VRE at the tail end of the D.C. rush hour. Southbound Regional 85 would be a good connector M-F, 156 on weekends. Northbound is a bit tougher, as arrival time is harder to predict. 84 M-F and 88 on weekends are reasonable choices, getting corridor passengers to their destinations at close to the current times. Baggage not included...

[Ridgefielder]

It has been asked before but what constraints are there for Albany trains to use Hell Gate route. Since CSX uses it there must be some connection but maybe not a connection to the passenger tracks over Hell Gate. Need a pair of switches ? How much additional enroute time ?

Take a look at the map. A train bound from Albany to Penn Station via the Hell Gate has to do the following:
-Diverge from the current route at Spuyten Duyvil and run ~7 miles south on MN's Hudson Line to Mott Haven in the South Bronx.
-Take the north leg of the wye at MO and backtrack ~7 miles north on the MN's Harlem Division to Woodlawn.
-Diverge from the Harlem at Woodlawn and run east ~5 miles on Metro North's New Haven Line to New Rochelle.
-At New Rochelle, change ends, reverse direction, and head south on the Hell Gate.

You're adding ~20 extra miles just to get onto the Hell Gate Route, which itself isn't a direct shot into Midtown. The whole operation will probably add an hour to overall travel time. That's feasible enough for one of the LD's but a non-starter for the shorter Albany run.

Even in the case of the Lake Shore and Maple Leaf, I think you're going to see a lot of people transferring at Yonkers or Croton-Harmon for the MN run into Penn rather than go on a looping rail tour of The Bronx!

[ThirdRail7]

Things under consideration include sending Midclowns back in Hoboken, the Raritans back in Newark, sending 3 Albany trains to GCT along with combining 63/69 to ALB, turning a bunch of Keystones turning in Newark, eliminating three 3 regional round trips between NYP-WAS, eliminating an Acela round trip between NYP-WAS and if it can be handled, possibly turning the Crescent in WAS.

On the Crescent, there doesn't seem to be a lot of through-running track space that would allow it to be turned at WAS. But how about BAL? if they can rebuild the Track 2/3 platform to be a mixed high/low platform and put in a second elevator in short order (the existing elevator is blocked and used as storage), they got more options (possibly moving the Silver Star's termination to those tracks as well).

Baltimore doesn't have the room, facilities, mechanical forces or provisions to take on any type of train. Additionally, the wye has been closed for at least 10 years.

The Crescent should be easy be turn at Washington as long as a track at Ivy City is available. Turning at Washington would save a whole train set as well, reducing pressure on the diner pool. North of DC it's usually about half empty anyway. A more pressing problem is handling passenger (and baggage) transfer, as the Crescent currently shares a platform with VRE at the tail end of the D.C. rush hour. Southbound Regional 85 would be a good connector M-F, 156 on weekends. Northbound is a bit tougher, as arrival time is harder to predict. 84 M-F and 88 on weekends are reasonable choices, getting corridor passengers to their destinations at close to the current times. Baggage not included...

With three less regional trains to service, they feel they can same day turn 20 for 19...providing NS agrees to allow a later departure from DC (which is pending.) That will allow some cushion for delays. As you indicated, where do you put the connecting luggage and passengers since regional trains are well represented? My vote was for continued operation to NYP (but that puts them in NYP at the same time) and if that isn't possible, push 20 to PHL since was is short on space. At least in PHL, you have keystones to help absorb some of the passengers. You can deadhead the equipment to NYP off peak. Turning 20 to 19 in PHL could work if you allowed the set to layover. However, you don't have a commissary in PHL. In both cases, you also have an orphan set of equipment, that the locals aren't familiar with and a lack of parts/replacements if things go wrong. However, it is temporary and perhaps they can move manpower and establish a protect in WAS from the extra set.

There was also talk about turning 48/49 at ALB but ALB stated they couldn't really handle it reliably on a consistent basis. Running the whole thing to Boston isn't likely since they stated the yard couldn't handle 48's the entire consist in their facility at this time.

It will be interesting to see what actually occurs.

[philipmartin]

Amtrak is considering running three Albany round trips into Grand Central.

Amtrak will begin running into Grand Central Terminal this summer, a Metro-North union official confirmed Wednesday evening.

James Fahey, the director of the executive board for the Association of Commuter Rail Employees, said the national railroad would begin running three trains into Grand Central and three out.

He said Amtrak and Metro-North still have to work out a plan on safety, as Amtrak engineers are not qualified to drive trains in Grand Central and the qualification is too difficult to get on short notice.

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/transit ... 328515001/

[ThirdRail7]

I'm sure you mean Grand Central, but we're already covering this in three threads:

Penn Station infrastructure - why so bad?

P32AC-DM Dual-Mode Genesis Discussion (Empire Service)

and in great detail in the Penn Station Trackwork thread.

[Gilbert B Norman]

A historical note of interest; during Feb 1958, there was a snow event that, because it was a freezing mist, disabled practically the entire GG-1 fleet. During that period, the trains from the South operated with the interchanging roads' power to Phila where the trains were terminated.

There are photos in TRAINS showing RF&P, SRY, and C&O power running under the wires. It is also how the G's gained those unsightly vents cut into the sides of their noses.

[east point]

[
-Take the north leg of the wye at MO and backtrack ~7 miles north on the MN's Harlem Division to Woodlawn.
-Diverge from the Harlem at Woodlawn and run east ~5 miles on Metro North's New Haven Line to New Rochelle.
-At New Rochelle, change ends, reverse direction, and head south on the Hell Gate.

:

The question is how does CSX travel from Albany over Hell Gate without reversing direction ?

[ThirdRail7]

I don't believe they do. The P&W that comes from the New Haven line diverges on to 5 track at Pelham Bay, enters (or doesn't enter) Oak Island yard in the Bronx and continues to Fresh Pond over the Hell Gate Bridge.

CSX from the direction of Albany would generally come down their former line that they leased to Amtrak until they entered Metro-North's Hudson line. Form there, they would follow the Hudson Line to CP 8 in the Bronx which is their Oak Point Link track. They follow that route south, hugging the Harlem River until it meets the Bronx Kills. At this point, it turns along the the Kills, comes UNDERNEATH the Hell Gate bridge and heads east into Oak Point yard. Once it enters Oak Point Yard, they would have to run around the train or reverse direction to enter the Hell Gate bridge and head west to Fresh Pond.

[Backshophoss]

The Oak Point Connector is reportly freight only unsignaled single track under CSX control from CP 8 to the yard.
Considered in the yard limits of Oak Point yard.

Would an ACS-64 coupling on to the rear car of a detoured train and an air test be quicker than a runaround move at New Rochelle?
same motor could pull an "outbound" Maple Leaf then tow in an "inbound" Lake shore as an example.

[ThirdRail7]

Would an ACS-64 coupling on to the rear car of a detoured train and an air test be quicker than a runaround move at New Rochelle?
same motor could pull an "outbound" Maple Leaf then tow in an "inbound" Lake shore as an example.

Using an electric is the typical move. You'd need two back to back P32s to run around the train and if you were going to to use two P32s, you might as well bracket the train right out of ALB and make the train Pull-Pull. However, you need extra diesels for that move ,which is why they typically tow with an electric.

[hs3730]

During the Spuyten-Duyvil switch replacement a few years ago, they did exactly that. 48/49 and the combined 63/69/64/68 was pulled by an AEM-7 between NYP and New Rochelle. To help make up time they kept their P42 with no engine change at ALB (though, obviously one additional was needed when the Adirondack and Maple Leaf split).

[Tadman]

Would an ACS-64 coupling on to the rear car of a detoured train and an air test be quicker than a runaround move at New Rochelle?
same motor could pull an "outbound" Maple Leaf then tow in an "inbound" Lake shore as an example.

Using an electric is the typical move. You'd need two back to back P32s to run around the train and if you were going to to use two P32s, you might as well bracket the train right out of ALB and make the train Pull-Pull. However, you need extra diesels for that move ,which is why they typically tow with an electric.

Obviously I'm no expert here, but could you put a P42 on one end and P32DM on other (given scarcity of P32DM) and use the '42 just as a cab if it's necessary to bracket and do pull-pull?

[Railjunkie]

Obviously I'm no expert here, but could you put a P42 on one end and P32DM on other (given scarcity of P32DM) and use the '42 just as a cab if it's necessary to bracket and do pull-pull?

They will talk to one another, one exception would be the mode change. 42s have no way to tell 32s to go to electric and if I remember correctly if the 32 was in the lead the 42 would shut down during the mode change. When stuff like this is done there is generally a mechanical rider on the trail unit.

[Backshophoss]

Unlike some of the Amfleet I's that were modded with the MU trainline installed,most LD 's you either do a runaround move,or
get an other loco to pull you back to the station.
Since the Detour is from DV to New Rochelle it's would be quicker just to tack on the ACS-64 and do an air test for the reverse "tow in" to Penn.
The "outbound" Detour is a tow out to New Rochelle,cut the motor off and the P-32/42 is then pulling to Albany.
The Detour is a BIG U turn in both directions,for the train to "face" the right way,you get towed into/out of NY Penn
in reverse.

From going South on the Hudson Line to going North on the Harlem line to Woodlawn going east on the New Haven line to New Rochelle,
The tow in is west to NYP on the NEC.
Just reverse it for the run North to Albany.

[mtuandrew]

Presumably, with this partial shutdown Amtrak would have a small surplus of motors not being used for cross-NYP service, and NJT would have a small surplus of cars unable to reach NYP at all.

Could Amtrak run TRE - NHV with Sprinters and Multilevels as push-pull Clockers? Doesn't solve LIRR's problems, but it does free up a little room at Grand Central for Amtrak Empire Service.

Also, before the planned major track reconstruction gets underway, can Amtrak build a substation or two and extend its third rail out to Newark? Thinking outside of the box, because we haven't discussed sending LIRR sets to New Jersey and I'm guessing the clearances just aren't there to extend 12.5kVAC to Jamaica.